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Can Bitcoin survive the impending Quantum threat?
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Yeah, dude. I’m hearing Oh, I’m It’s a Bitcoin podcast. The only one that’s making your money. You listening to the Bitcoin market. So, hold on. Listen to the Bitcoin. >> Hey everybody, welcome back to another live episode of the Bitcoin Podcast. I’m the host that typically talks first, D. >> I’m your second host, Dr. Corey Petty. >> And I’m the her uh third host, Jesse. >> Herd host. I’m so tired. I’m the herd host. Today we’re bringing you three exhausted hosts that have adulted hard aside from this show. >> We’re coming at you and we’re also trying a page out of uh who’s the director of Lord of the Rings. >> Peter something. >> I don’t know. >> I think his name’s Peter. We’re trying a little perspective illusion where Corey and I are normal sized and Jesse is tiny. >> So if you’re looking Jesse’s itty bitty today. So, we’re coming in hot today. The the latest things I’m being asked >> Peter Jax forgot his last name. I forgot. I just I typically call Peter Jax just when he and I kick it. But, um, so the latest things I’m being asked by the new round of GPPs, the aunties are way out of the game. If you guys have been listening to our show for a while, you know I have a auntie index. My aunties have been at a They can’t take it. I think their hearts expand more. they can’t do it anymore. Like, and so the new GPP that approaches me is the one that is hyper educated, hyper professional, and usually buying XRP. And they tell me things like, “Hey, XRP is going to do way better than Bitcoin.” And I’m like, “Really? Explain to me how you know this.” And they’re like, “Well, I just listened to a podcast and they said that Bitcoin is going to be made obsolete by quantum computing.” And I say given my cursory knowledge of quantum mechanics that I’ve learned just from that man right there that you’re looking at, Dr. Corey Petty, who actually studied this and has a >> card carrying quantum physicist. Yeah. >> Yes. He is a card carrying quantum physicist and has a dissert and wrote a dissertation about like I can only say to the layman’s it’s like electron teleportation. That’s all you need to know. It’s actually like 20 words long, but that’s how I digested it as a layman. Now, uh, so this all comes to a head with this tweet by Mr. Wonderful himself where he says, and I will read verbatim. >> Blow that up. That’s way too small. Blow that up. >> How can I make it bigger? Do I just need >> control plus if you’re on Apple the command button plus >> Oh, okay. Oh, that’s what you mean. I thought you mean like give it a bigger screen. >> Okay. Can you Is it good now? It’s good. Yeah, it’s good. >> He said, Mr. Wonderful himself, Bitcoin just took another brutal correction down 50%. And no, this isn’t the first time we’ve seen this movie. But something bigger is happening underneath the price action. Back in Octore, when everything melted, Bitcoin got slaughtered and the rest of the market was wiped out and some coins down 80 to 90% which we’ve all seen before and they never recovered. Why? I’m the expert on Bitcoin. I’ll let you know. I’m Mr. Wonderful. because institutions finally did the math and realized if you want 90% of the upside and volatility in crypto, you only need Bitcoin and Ethereum. Oh Almost something like we’ve said, you know, a a few times back in the day. Everything else is just poo poo coins. He’s unwilling to call them shitcoins, but we have a podcast. We said whatever the hell we want. Everything else is just shitcoins, worthless, and they got dumped accordingly. I’m still long Bitcoin. long for user that you don’t know means he thinks the price is going to go up. But there’s a new concern floating around now. Quantum computing. Bum bum bum bum bum. Can someone hit a sound effect or we that are not being that cheesy tonight? >> I don’t do those sound effects. They’re not very good. >> Damn. Y’all didn’t listen to enough morning radio on your way. >> God doctor crazy. Okay. The idea that a quantum computer could eventually break the chain is making institutions hesy or hesitate as you know hesy as the kids would say but hesitate and until that gets resolved don’t expect them to go beyond a 3% allocation they’ll stay cautious they’ll stay disciplined and they’ll wait for clarity that’s the reality that’s what my man said that’s what the muppet looking dude said >> Mr. Wonderful. >> So, I thought, you know who would probably have great opinions about this? Someone who knows quantum physics >> and crypto. >> And here and and here and here here he is. Audience, let’s get an educated opinion about quantum computes threat to crypto. >> Yeah. So, we actually talked about this a while ago. I think a number of times. I may have written an article about it. I have to go look. like he’s not 100% wrong here. It’s a it’s a cause for concern. Um let me tell you why. So like right now if you look at the total supply of Bitcoin. Um a good portion of that Bitcoin is considered gone and lost and can never be recovered because those keys are lost. And this includes Satoshi’s coins. We assume Satoshi won’t move those coins because he’s dead and gone. He hadn’t done it yet. And so for most when you look at the price action or what’s priced in, it usually has to do with like the the circulating supply and all of those old coins that have basically been locked away or haven’t moved or can just considered dead. They’re not priced in anymore. Specifically, Satoshi’s coins, which is a massive amount of of the total supply. Um, quantum computers can break that. They can break the access to his private keys and then move those coins which then has a drastic inflation of whoever gets gets access to those things. And so without breaking any rules, without breaking consensus, without doing anything, you can just break the private keys of these public keys because like the whole idea of you put your public like your address is basically a derivation of your public key like your public key is on the chain is the assumption that the derivation of the public key is what’s called a trapdoor function. Meaning that like it’s a one-way function. private key. You can get a a public key from a private key, but you cannot go the other way. >> You can’t derive a private key from a public key. And quantum computers for these for this type of encryption breaks that assumption in the event there is real quantum computing and they can get to I think what 256-bit key that Bitcoin uses, they have access to anyone’s private keys. I see >> across the board. And so what needs to happen is is the network needs to update the cryptography and everyone then needs to move their tokens into a new wallet that’s based in this cryptography and Satoshi can’t do that. So even if you made like a social uh change like that you you go through all of the rigor of getting the network to upgrade itself, change the rules, do a hard fork, change the cryptography because of this problem that is a real problem. Satoshi’s not going to do it. So that means one of two things. those those those coins stay there or the social consensus is to cut them out of existence completely which is making the assumption that like he is dead he is gone they’re never coming back or and all the other tokens that are like that that we assume are dead and so that needs to be dealt with and Bitcoin as a community isn’t the fastest at dealing with problems like this or any hardware upgrades or um hard hard fork upgrades and So yeah, it’s a risk. It’s a real risk. >> So I guess my my immediate question, right? Is just 3 four years ago and maybe this is just hey time flies, tech does too, but you were saying hey quantum computing needs to go very very far before it can threaten these algorithms that secure the world. It’s right now a very >> singularly focused technology where like you have to really really define the problem. It’s not a general use case thing. It’s like basically >> we don’t even know if we can possibly scale the systems that run these things. >> You know, >> we don’t know if it’s physically possible. So like quantum computing as a theory is correct. It works. The idea of it works. The problem is we can’t build machines that implement that theory big enough to scale up the size of the problems we can solve that have any impact that matter. So like that’s what I mean like if we you need to have a really really really big quantum computer far bigger than we can get to so far to then break the the number of bits in private keys of Bitcoin and like how we so there’s still a a potential limit that we don’t know exists where we physically cannot build these types of computers this big >> due to like quantum coherence and like keeping these things stable because they’re really hard to keep stable. So it might just be that we can’t go that big doing quantum quantum computing. We don’t know that. And so like yeah, there’s a lot of innovation that’s required to like build quantum computers that are useful, but there’s no theoretical reason why we can’t do it yet. So it’s just a matter of time. >> Do you ever fear that we’ll rip a hole to another dimension on accident? >> No. >> Okay. I had to sneak that question in. And you know, I had to sneak that question in. Okay. So, >> is it Horizon? >> Let’s get back to the crypto. Um, okay. So, basically, it’s the Satoshi paradox that is the real threat because we can’t get social consensus and move enough of the supply. It’s a real threat that Bitcoin just kind of freezes actually. >> Yeah. >> It’s like like what do you do with the supply like that? like that like okay now one person who we don’t know has all the tokens >> you and you can’t just create like another layer with more tokens because then then we’re kind of going against the grain of like digital scarcity >> we can’t just create value out of >> there goes that 21 million Bitcoin meme if we cut them all out and we make this cryptography upgrade >> so there goes that right so I have bad news for most everyone listening I am Satoshi no I’m kidding Yeah, that’s real bad news. We’re >> What did I do with my hardware wallet? No. Um, so that’s the true paradox is that like the moment it does become a real threat, Bitcoin actually can’t because Bitcoin went a different route when it comes to social consensus, Bitcoin itself, BTC that is becomes not usable. >> Yeah. Yes, like like I’ve read I did write a blog about like the how the Bitcoin consensus works or like kind of the primitives on why we trust it. And it’s all built on one simple assumption, one math assumption. And that is that a SHA 256 hash is a one-way function and has an uniform distribution. meaning that like you don’t have collisions and you can’t guess what your hash is going to look like beforehand. And like given given a hash, you can’t go backwards. You can’t go back to the data. And so because of that assumption, we base all our cryptography in this kind of specific size and type. And if we break that assumption, which quantum computers do when they’re big enough, like they they by definition solve this problem that we couldn’t solve beforehand. If we can make them big enough, then it’s it’s a it’s all it all comes down. So we have so there’s been a whole field that’s been kind of blown up and gotten way more mature since we started building the semblance of quantum computers. called um like postquantum cryptography and that’s basically rebuilding all the cryp cryptographic things we have today that are not subject to this same problem >> that things like what secures your browser uses. So, I I everything I know about cryptography, I learned from the amazing textbook Digital Fortress by Dan Brown. And from what I understand, >> I have that here. >> It’s an amazing book, dude. I’ve read that book like six times. I don’t know why. I really like it. Um, it’s not it’s not it’s a fiction novel, everyone, which you can learn a lot. It >> was Dan Brown. It was Dan Brown. So, it had some it had some snippets in there. Oh yeah, each chapter is three sentences long. Makes makes you feel real accomplished for real. But anyways, um there’s like a real like it’s not just crypto that breaks like it’s everything that >> Oh yeah, there I mean there’s a whole if it’s a website you probably search for it basically like the countdown um on all the things that need to get upgraded that are much bigger than crypto in order for like the internet to not break or the banks to not break because like most of the cryptography that we have today is based on the type that can be broken by quantum computers. >> So like they’re probably not like what the the first because these things are still expensive to run. It’s not like you just have a quantum computer and it sits in a in a in a corner of your room quietly and just cranks away and doesn’t it doesn’t have a lot doesn’t pull a lot of energy. They’re incredibly expensive and hard to run and they don’t just like crank stuff out. They’re incredibly insensitive, hard to run for like a single problem. >> And so it’s not like once these things exist and when they start being used and we have evidence that they’re being used, so the public knows about it because they’re going to they’re going to be mil military weapons initially. It’s not going to be on Bitcoin. >> It’s going to be on something else. >> I don’t know what you think, Jess. Do you even is this something that hits your radar at all or you um like >> So while you guys are talking about it, I’m actually just querying chatbt getting some actual numbers. So here’s some actual numbers. >> You want to throw it on the screen? >> So how fast? It’s it’s too long. I can’t read it all. I can’t all it’s it’s >> so so the questions I had. I’ll I’ll um give you a quick paragraph summary. So, breaking a specific Bitcoin private key. >> He gone. You moved him, D. You’re moving him. >> I pushed too many buttons. I apologize. >> Okay. So, so just just in a nutshell, even if you had a quantum computer, you couldn’t brute force all of the private keys in the entire Bitcoin ecosystem. It would take more time than the universe. >> All of them? No, but you could brute force. >> So, you could do one. Yeah. If you do to do one right, you would you would for specifically Shor’s algorithm would take about 2330 logical cubits for a 256-bit prime field uh elliptic curve uh discrete log or ECC discrete log. But turning that into something that works in practice likely means millions uh plus like like more than millions of physical cubits. And one published hardware assumption study suggests roughly 3.17 x 10 the eth physical cubits to do it in about one hour. Fast enough to matter for some theft scenarios when a public key is exposed. Today’s gatebased systems are roughly 10^ the 1 to 10^ the 3 noisy physical cubits and only tens of logical cubits in public error corrected demos. While annealers can have thousands of cubits but aren’t useful for sure, quote, “Breaking all private keys is essentially brute forcing the two to the 256 key space or with Grover’s quadratic speed up to the 128th, which remains astronomically infeasible even with wildly optimistic step rates. So the realistic quantum risk is targeted key recovery for keys whose public keys are available. Yeah, definitely not sweeping the entire key space. But then also in terms of cost, there is no shores algorithm capable quantum computer you can buy today at any price. So the closest thing to cost in terms of what it costs to rent time on the most capable gatebased hardware available via cloud uh top end uh so like nobody nobody has the hardware and even if the hardware existed uh Amazon bracket I guess there’s something called ion QFortte which reservations at $7,000 per hour >> dwave sucks that’s not going to do it. >> Yeah. So anyway it doesn’t exist. you got you got to scale like orders of magnitude even more before you have a shot. So, I don’t know. I think it’s just I don’t know. It’s you know this interested >> has like programs. >> You want to know the real threat on this? >> Yeah. >> There’s a blog there’s a there there’s a YouTube video I just put in the in the chat that does a great breakdown on like what the time horizon actually is and why. >> What is horizon? >> It’s really good. >> I don’t think he reme. What >> what is the time horizon? >> Less than 10 years. >> Yeah. For like breaking real infrastructure that matters. >> Okay. But not not not Okay. So what is the what is the less than 10 years but like minimum what three? >> Forget eight. >> Forget the uh like five like potentially five depending on key innovations. >> I see. So it is actually look at the scale of the individual things that need to scale and the trends. >> Yeah. >> Some newer things that have come out that like basically amplify the timeline and what things we can do now that don’t require like fully cracking encryption. >> I see. >> That are basically smaller problem like a smaller problem space. You don’t need as big >> of a quantum computer to start having severe impact. >> I see. I see. Okay. >> All right. Hear me out. Hear me out. So we got So we got an elliptic curve, right? looks like a sideways omega >> kind of way of showing it. That’s not actually actually how it works. >> Yeah, like if you control, you know, the parameters of the ellipses, it’ll change. But here’s the thing. What if we had like parallel I think that’s the right. Yeah, parallel curves. You know what I’m talking about? They never touch, right? They do an infinity >> just stacked, right? And you’ve got your PK on this one, but then you’ve got these like PK primes. They never intersect, but they’re just right there like imaginary numbers. You know what I’m talking about? They’re there. >> You’re maths are great. >> That’s why I’m spitting like this. >> All right. We got imaginary We got imaginary elliptic curves just stacked, right? What if you know the computer cracks this one, but nah, you didn’t crack the real one. You cracked a fake imaginary PK. Got your ass quantum computer. >> Write it up. Let’s put an archive. >> Hey, is that even possible? Like, I mean, >> you said a bunch of No, >> I didn’t say a bunch of I mean there you can have parallel ellipses that like or would they be orthogonal? They’re parallel. >> Ellipsies. >> Yeah. Like a oval here and an oval here and they’re parallel. They’re like >> elliptic curves are not like that. >> Elliptic curve. It exists in xy. So it is kind of like that. >> No. Well, >> it’s not a function, but it’s like >> still modular arithmetic. >> Yeah. But you can draw an elliptic curve and then draw another one. you have two pieces of paper above each other and they could be you know >> I think those are what pairings are just a part of it >> I mean just like an imaginary number right you got the par parabola but it’s just not >> imaginary numbers are >> yes like you’ve got the parabola it’s just not intersecting the x- axis so the imaginary intersection is up here >> duh right so then we’ve got so then you’ve got you know imaginary elliptic curves and then you just trick the computers into like hacking the imaginary ones. >> Write it up. >> Hey, click that. Somebody get on that chat. >> Chat, get on that. We know some of you guys are pretty bright out there. Get on that. You know, I only took a math undergrad, so I’m batting way out of my league here, right? My skin is too moisturized to be a PhD in math. >> So, >> you know, >> I never did any cryptography math. I’m doing it with Corey. >> Yeah, we’re doing this. DK, >> I I’ll tell you a true story about my past in undergrad. I I was trying to go visit my professor >> and forgot he had a class he was teaching and it was a way way super duper advanced PhD course. And so I was like, well, let me just slide in here real quick. I got, you know, I’m good with my professor. He won’t mind. So I slid in the class and there was there were math symbols on that board. I swear to God, it looked like Stargate. And everybody was just laughing and having a great time in math language. I would never understand. There was like a pyramid with an angel ring on the top. I was like, “Yo, I will never understand. I’m never I was like, I don’t even want to be a part of this. I don’t >> Was it an upside down A or was it?” >> No, no, it was like a upside down V with like a angel ring around the top and I was like >> V with angel ring on top. That was like one of the symbols and I was like what? It was like stargate. You >> sure it wasn’t a vector? Like a vector V? >> I’m 100% sure it wasn’t a vector. It was a symbol that immediately made me think of Stargate and was like, “Oh, this shit’s possible.” >> Is it a gradient symbol? >> Dude, I don’t know. Put it on the screen. >> Adele. >> Yeah, >> put it on the screen and I’ll show you. >> I got a pretty good memory these days. >> How do I How do I do that? >> Get out of here. Here, push the plus sign and then I’ll throw it up here. Let me get mine out of here. >> Plus sign. What plus sign? >> The plus sign at the bottom that has the screen on it. >> Oh, you want me to share my screen? Oh, okay. >> I want you. >> Uh, let me open a Google. Who knows? Who knows the kind of sickos that are tuning into this thing? Excuse me. Sorry. So the plusian is the partial derivative of a vector. >> Hold on. >> I don’t think you’re talking about it’s a different class. It would be like the the capital D which like the upside down triangle. All I know is like math to me started to hurt when like I didn’t know that studying I thought studying math was going to be doing the stuff that I thought was easy you know got A’s in loved it calculatored it up was jamming understood calculus >> abstraction >> good and then when it got to like that real analysis and that that uh what’s the other one it’s not real analysis it’s a >> imaginary analysis I think >> it’s over broge >> complex analysis >> linear algebra was fine No, it’s not the for all symbol. I think that’s what you’re about. >> No, no, no. This this right here. This Naba or Dell. >> You’re not showing your screen. >> Oh, there it is. >> That doesn’t help at all. >> Hold up. See it right here. This thing. Was it that thing? >> Nah, that wasn’t it. >> Dell, that’s what you’re talking about. >> Nope, that wasn’t it. >> Naba, Dell, they’re the same thing apparently. >> I know what that is. That wasn’t it. >> Okay, give me a query that we can find it. Hold on. Let me >> I looked up exactly what you said. Upside down V with angel ring on top. That’s I can say upside down pyramid. Try that. >> Still getting the Nabau. >> Yeah, we got nothing here. I swear to you, I’ll find it and we will talk about it one day. But I just know that >> crypto stuff. >> I had never seen it before. I mean, it’s crypto stuff. Crypto’s math, right? We math hard. >> Back to back to >> So, um, >> so long story short, right, Bitcoin, quantum gets in the Bitcoin’s biz, Bitcoin goes defunct. Crypto as a concept isn’t going to go away, especially if humanity has adopted it for >> will maintain value though are going to be the ones that be like to be fair not kill it because like the network is still upgrade. We’re just going to have old coins that are going to be compromisable. So that’s kind of like the whole Dow situation where we’re like a portion of the economy has this like nefarious actors and they have this massive amount of funds now. So, like there would be a huge price hit, but like it’s it could recover. >> Yeah. >> Uh but like no one’s going to it’s such it’s so unknowable when that would happen. >> What say you to the audience that’s like says that they fork it and then they’re like, “Oh, now there’s just more scarcity and let’s just play with it.” >> They have to get rid of like 21 million Bitcoin meme. All kinds of things. And like I’m not even sure if they’ve even thought about this in terms of the development plan. I mean, I know that like Pier Woolly and Maxwell are smart people, so they get this concept. Um, I don’t know. I don’t know what I don’t know. It’s real. But like all coins, I mean, all chains right now other than like maybe two, which no one cares about, are sub have this problem. like all like the entire there’s like three main types of cryptography we use for almost all the chains and they’re all subject to this problem to a very degree and so they all need upgraded >> well I think so this is this is a little bitty sidebar and a hard subject change, but I got to talking with uh my he and we got to talking about adoption and crypto. He I he he laid it. It was crazy. I had a new new project manager on this job. I’m working and he was like, “So, I heard you’re into crypto.” And I was like, >> “Yeah, man. I’m kind of into it.” He was like, “Yeah, I Googled you. You’re into it into it.” And I was like, “Well, yeah.” And then this dude pulled out eight hardware wallets from his bag and he was like, “Yeah, me, too.” And I was like, “Oh, And so we had lots of great conversations, right? And then what it led to was the cross the chasm conversation that you and me used to have, Corey, about like, hey, you got your early adopters and then you’ve got this huge chasm and then you’ve got mass adoption. And then I got to talking, you know, I’d be spitting. And I thought like I feel like that chasm is forced adoption. I feel like Hey, there it is. Who’s the author? >> Jeffrey Moore. Jeffrey Moore, Crossing the Chasm. Great book. We all had to read it. I don’t know why. Marello gave it to us and we all read. >> Yeah. Chello gave it to us because he wanted us under talk. He wanted to talk about this concept because he had he had learned about it in marketing. Um obviously he’s a marketer and he wanted to talk about it because we were always talking about being early. He’s like, “Oh, who’s the audience? >> Who should we care about?” This type of thing. And that was what So he he sent us this book and we all read it and we talked about it. And so obviously, you know, we struggle with our specific audience we talked to, but I feel like we talked to a few, but I feel like the chasm is forced adoption, right? And this is I started to spit and I was like, listen, we know we already know banks have the regulation to open up wallets. We already know banks have the regulation for custody. We know that they’re currently building the processes for yield to flow into their coffers. Or if they weren’t doing that, then they wouldn’t be threatening Coinbase to lower their USDC yield, right? like we know these things are happening in the background. And so I was like that forced adoption is going to be bank simply one day you log into your Chase Bank app, your Wells Fargo app. Hopefully it’s not Wells Fargo because they’re going to steal your money. They are criminals for the most part. Um or you’re or you’re sorry I didn’t mean to say that. You guys probably hear that. You’ll sue me. Wells Fargo, you’re not criminals. You just very often >> they’ve done some criminal >> Get found guilty of very large crimes. >> Criminal So, um, but you’re gonna and there’s going to be a crypto wallet in there. You’re going to say, “Hey, congratulations. You’re in the crypto game now.” And we’re going to help you get into it, fund your wallet, and you’ll say, “Okay, cool. I’ll just take some money out of my bank account. It’ll go in there.” And then it keeps happening a little bit over time. What happens is they need money to flow into those wallets because they need money to circulate. They need liquidity. They need velocity. So then they’re going to say things like, “Hey, we’ll give you a 5% increase on your money if you direct deposit directly into here. We’ll give you USDC. Well, they’re going to force this adoption on people to use these systems and networks that they’ve designed, right? And one, I think it sucks, but two, I think it’s kind of inevitable. >> Yeah. I mean, yeah, it’s like an inshitification of all technology is inevitable as it grows. >> What did you say? What was that word? >> Inshitification. It’s a Cory Dotoro term. Um, he’s a >> We had him We interviewed him. >> Yeah, we’ve interviewed him a number of times. Yeah, >> but >> an advocate for you know >> the internet staying the internet and not being co-opted. >> Would you guys partake >> in what? >> In that forced adoption. >> It depends, right? It’s like if if it’s a I I have a bank I use a bank account. I I I still participate in traditional infrastructure. So like if my bank happens to have this offer that makes sense for my that pool of funds, sure, whatever. But I like I’ll at least go into it understanding what it is. And it’s not really crypto. It’s just using some of the words and the technology, but in a in a permissioned way. It’s not going to be like crypto all permissionless open jurisdictionless networks, right? And so I’ll just use it knowing what it is. If it’s beneficial to me, sure, whatever. Doesn’t matter to me because it’s like at the end of the day, if it still makes traditional finance infrastructure better, hopefully some of that gets passed down to me. But at the very least, maybe it’s faster. >> I don’t know. Yeah. I don’t care. Like I’m still participating in the real stuff. And so like that’s just like >> if it helps whatever. Yeah. We got a comment. Left a left a big like. All right. >> Coming in hot. >> Nike Warrior Inc. I think what’s what’s crazy is that like you know when we started this picture so long ago I had no idea that you know what is it going on 11 years later we’d still have things that were intriguing and could discuss about about Bitcoin and crypto in general like you know that that to me is just a testament to how amazing this stuff is. Uh, but I don’t know. All the stuff is very interesting. And if you find yourself very curious about crypto like we are, you should uh join the Discord. Where’s the Where’s the Where is it at? >> That doesn’t work anymore, right? I >> make a new one. >> I didn’t put a new one in there. In fact, let me just get rid of this the old one. >> Yeah, I can whip up a new one. There’s no such thing as a static >> Jesse’s uh young Jamie over there doing things. >> Jesse, I’m not gonna lie to you. You make a very good You make a very good Jamie. >> I don’t I don’t know how I feel about that. >> Well, not not like not like the bad ways, but like in the good ways. Like you >> only It’s only It’s only going to work if we tell you to look something up and then in a shitty way tell you exactly the words to use to write into Google. Mhm. Like like your own. >> It’s comedy. >> No, no, don’t don’t don’t search it that way. Search it the way that I’m right >> and then and then you don’t have to worry. So, sorry. We’re going to get a Discord QR code up for you guys if you want to join our Discord. Um, if they ask you to give your ID, just don’t join. >> I don’t know. >> Join. >> I know that like for real. Like I’m I’m legitimately thinking like how am I going to communicate with my friends if >> I don’t know cuz I’m not I’m not giving them my ID. That’s for damn sure. >> Give them my ID, right? Like >> I mean I I’m clearly an adult. I’m not in any adult Discords. I don’t want to use Discord that way. I know there’s a ton of that stuff available. >> Yes, there is, dude. >> But like >> I’m not saying that from I’m not >> I don’t I don’t have any Discords servers that I know of that would flag me. It’s like if it’s gonna basically going to run AI on your profile and say, “Are you an adult?” >> Yeah. or are you or are you participating in adult only content? Then if if if yes based on whoever that AI looks at you, it’ll then make you go through that process of of giving your ID or whatever that KYC process is. That’s which is going to get hacked or you know Tencent has all your data. So, but they already have that anyway. So, >> dude, those so >> that one. >> There you go. sub day. >> My adult daughter draws anime and so she’s in these like anime Discords and one day she’s like, “Hey, can you help me fix my computer?” And I’m like, “I’ll give it a I’ll give it a shot.” So I get on her computer and I’m like, “Oh, you got Discord open.” And then me knowing full well what I was gonna see saw in this Discord channel that she was in or server that she was in a channel and it was the emoji one with a with a slash through it and eight with a slash through it. And my brain for some reason said, “Oh, that’s a weird way to write like 18 and over.” And I clicked on that and boy oh boy, it was like a channel where you submit your very adult anime pictures and get voted on about how awesome they are. And I clicked on there and it was up there and she saw and I saw and then we saw each other’s eyes and I was like, “What is what are you doing?” And she’s like, “You shouldn’t have why would you click on that? You knew exactly what you were going to see.” And I was like I I I I just didn’t think it was happening like that. I just She was like, “Why would you?” And that was like it was just like I I felt like I knew more about my daughter that day that she draws some crazy and just throws it out there. >> She’s good at it too, >> dude. I was like, “Oh my goodness.” I think I say this was like, “No, only fans for your body, but these little cartoon bodies. If you want only fans them out, you know, >> you can make an avatar out of it. Make some waifuss. Make some money. >> Do do anime. >> It don’t make that much money. It’s like for the Middle East or German. >> No, he’s looked into it. >> Wait, wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait a minute. How do you know? Wait, whoa, what? No. >> Oh, Cory knows. I’ve invited Corey into the place. >> NSF. He showed me the things and I’m like, nah, >> I’m good. >> You can commission some uh 3D model art if you want. They usually sell them on dating sims for lonely uh like permanently online people who can’t leave the house >> and they just fap to that type of Yeah, >> I feel like there’s a real market for people who just can’t get out of the house or maybe they have a physical disability and they need to, you know, they got to satisfy that human urge. But anyways, we’ve gone way off a subject. Let’s get let’s get back to crypto. >> Well, I mean, it’s it’s been a long day for the three of us. We can wrap this down if you guys like. >> Wrap it up. Uh, that’s how long it’s been. >> Zip it out. Why is everyone harping on hanging? Is that what that guy says? >> I don’t know. Who knows? It’s YouTube comments, bro. You can’t like look into them too strong. >> What’s the crack? Yeah. I don’t even know. >> Anyways, uh we’re going to wind this on down. Uh go ahead and join the Discord and chat it up with us. It’s the other way. Your screen is mirrored. >> Oh, my screen’s mirrored. >> There you go. It looks on my screen. It’s so weird because it looks great on my screen. It pisses me off. >> It’s way wrong. >> I’ve now unmireded my camera in the settings. So now I can do that. There we go. >> Yes. Yeah, that’s it. >> Um, go Discord. You’ll find all kinds of people in that Discord. You will find developers, you will find founders, investors, you will find incredibly incredibly intelligent, studied people. You will find um Did I already say developers? I did. I already said founders. Uh there are some what’s the word? What’s the word for crypto dudes that gamble a lot? >> Defy. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh >> there’s some degens in there. Um you know, just a good crypto community. And you know, we’ve been slow growing for some time. Uh we used to have like a thousand people in our Slack, but then we moved over to Discord. >> Wild. >> It was it was pretty cool. I loved it. But then we moved over to Discord and a lot of people didn’t move over from Slack. But we’re trying to get back up there where it’s just like real people having real conversation and we also >> Yep. >> sound like a bot. You’re going to get >> booted. You will get booted. >> I was going to say something else, right? >> Uh you go you’re going to get you’re going to get launched if you’re a bot, right? Or if you talk like a bot. So, um, other than that, um, Jesse, you want to shout out your stuff? >> Uh, yeah, go to archavist.s storage if you care about your data and data privacy. >> Is that it right there? >> Yeah, you could go there and you can download the pilot. I haven’t dynamically linked V2, but there is a V2 and I put in a bunch of cool stuff if you want to archive the internet. >> Dope, you talk talk about your stuff. logos.co, baby. Get your civil liberties back. >> And my stuff is the bitcoinpodcast.com. I got some other stuff, but that’s for different. You don’t need to go to that stuff, right? >> You need to redo the outro to bring back some of the old music. >> I still have it on my hard drive. >> Yeah, that jazz one. I like the very first one. We can just add the outro. Outro is good. >> Was that your brother’s music? >> No, that was just some random video game music we found. >> Mhm. some random like Japanese like puzzle game that like one person played on Xbox Live, >> the original Xbox Live, and we just ripped it and nobody ever sued us. All right, play the outro.