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It’s a Bitcoin podcast. The only one that’s making your money. You listen to the Bitcoin market. So hold on to the Bitcoin. Hey everybody, welcome to Bitcoin Podcasts. >> We are Bitcoin. >> We are the Bitcoin podcast. I’m the host that usually talks first. >> Jesse go just pounding that protein shake. >> Passing. Corey would be >> I’m the second host. Cory Betty, >> I’m third host. Jesse and we are the Bitcoin podcast. >> That’s the That’s the riff. >> It didn’t for us. >> I didn’t hear that. Just like cut out. >> He made that with his mouth. >> Yeah. >> Oh, >> yep. >> Did you hear it the second time? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, guys, season 2, episode 7. We got uh 393 episodes to go in this season to keep up with our first season, which was 400 episodes long. >> 400 episodes. >> To be fair, we did those 400 episodes in like pretty fast. We we were so consistent. >> We were >> for those 400 episodes. >> We’re, you know, we’re we’re we’re different now. We we have different, you know, aging. We age now, you know, uh >> and not me. I looked up at the 7-Eleven >> drinking a 40 in Oh, gang. Open gang nam style. >> Gangum area. >> Where do you think that? >> Where do you think that that song came from? >> It came from bougie Koreans, right? I >> think it was a joke though. I think it was making fun of people. It was the whole >> He’s from there. >> Yeah. >> Like the whole thing was making fun of a different culture. >> Making fun of bougie people, right? >> Is it bougie? I think it I mean I feel like >> bougie people are easy to make fun of though because they don’t real like I’m bougie now. Like I went to a restaurant and walked out >> because they were they were flies >> and I thought I like they don’t think that’s bougie but people were calling me bougie cuz the people that I were eating with were like military people. They were like I’ve had to eat food off the ground. I eat MREs. We’re dirty in the rocks in the soup. And I’m like yeah but I’m a civilian 100%. I’m not going to eat in this restaurant where there flies. And they’re, oh, you’re being bougie, man. You’re used to the good life over here. And I was like, well, thank you for the good life, military person. I appreciate that. Thank you for your service. But >> look at that. We got comments on the little bottom right. That’s neat. >> Yeah, man. Stream >> we’re live. We’re live. Uh, >> live. >> When most of you watch this, it probably won’t be live. It’ll be >> No. No. >> Like weeks back. >> So, I mean, we could talk about some crypto stuff. Um, there’s not a lot going on. I mean, well, there’s always a lot going on, but like nothing that’s going to cause like world riveting news anymore with crypto. I think crypto’s days of world riveting news. >> What do you mean? Tether is raising 20 billion at a 500 valuation. What do you 20 billion? We see that a month. You don’t >> 500 billion numbers don’t mean anything >> on the size of open AI which is like one of the largest companies out there >> if numbers don’t mean anything anymore if one individual can get a 2 trillion paycheck numbers don't mean anything anymore >> they don't mean anything that that's the bonus that he's so Elon negotiated a 2 trillion like the same way that he negotiated his previous bonus performances >> 10 is what they want to pay this man. >> I mean, that’s the thing. If you’re that good, you can >> get that much. I’m starting the riots myself because that’s that’s that’s unnecessary. Okay, that’s at a point that’s unnecess I’m starting the riots myself. >> What is that? >> absurd. >> Like think think about like Dota players, right? Like they like good ones, they can win millions. Get good, right? >> No, it’s not get good. It breaks down the fabric of society. It’s not get good. Oh, I make 15 an hour delivering burritos to people that make that much. It’s going to break down the fabric of society, bro. There is no get good. Nobody’s that good. And I’ll say that until the day I die. All right. Hard stop. 2 trillion. >> Get good. Bill strongly for sure. Get good. >> Yeah. Get get good. Yeah. Okay. >> I believe in uh if you can perform that well, then you can you can get that. That's fine. >> Is it performance? >> Okay. So, what about the thousands of people that allow him to perform that well that aren't going to get paid anything near that amount? That's just him being greedy. But >> no, that's just shitty is what it is. >> If he can negotiate that and he can and he can help the companies. >> He's really good with words. So he deserves 2 trillion. Yeah. >> Why are you remember at some point? >> I don’t understand that concept. >> A couple a couple weeks ago >> we’re talking about the podcast and dear like I’m going to be professional now. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. I was right. And we did not hold on to that whatsoever. >> You gotta bleep this out. You gotta bleep this out. Me, >> future me. You got to bleep this out. Anyways, yeah. So, let me be more professional when I say this. There’s not a single person on this planet that’s worth getting paid 15 an hour to serve lightly salted French fries, it’s never going to work. Society will break down, right? And so what has to happen is these ultra wealthy people need to start getting comfortable with the fact that wealth needs to be redistributed in a way that it benefits the most to have the most because that is sheer basic economics. You cannot have the fabrics of economics break down because one person wants to be super duper rich and die on Mars. I’m sorry. We’re going to eat him. I’m going to be a char I’m going to be the person storming Elon Musk’s castle so we can eat his toes. >> All right. That is really Wow. >> Yeah. I don’t >> like more power to you if you can if you can make that happen. I I don’t really care. He’s chilling. But okay, now on to other things. Tether raised 500 what? 20 billion. Yay. >> No, they’re raising >> they’re raising 20 billion on a 500 billion valuation. >> Why don't they just do what Sailor does >> for what? Let's talk about why why are they doing that? I >> think they're making an exchange, right? They're like formalizing like a bank exchange kind of entity. I'm not really sure. >> Well, they're making a stable coin. USD >> we have the technology >> USD T U I don't know you just strap >> there's definitely there's definitely a separate stable coin for sure you're right D >> there is a new stable >> strap labels together >> and then you stable coin >> you know what's really surprising >> Cloudflare is gonna issue a stable coin >> I didn't see that one that one's weird yeah >> this is talked about this many many many moons ago and that is everybody who has the means is going to release a token and they're going to make fractions of fractions of a penny and it's just going to body out banks and it's going to body out the Visas and the Mastercards of the world. >> But I don't know if he said it was a stable coin is did is that what he said or was it >> well I think he was so early he didn't say it was a stable coin but he knew it was going to be some type of cryptocurrency right and that's just what we're looking forward to in a day we're going to what is it called? We're going to be we're going to be spending we're going to be spending Google dollars at the at the grocery store some sometime here soon and that's there's nothing that anybody can do anything about. I don't think I don't know. Would you guys rather spend Google dollars or meta dollars? >> Neither. >> Well, you're not going to have a choice. So, I'm going to ask you right now in advance. Bitcoin. >> What? Which what would you rather spend >> is it like pay my taxes or just to what? Like for what? >> I don't know, man. I see all those people. I Oh, I don't know. Hold on. Let me throw this out. I see all those people who quote unquote got good uh buddying buddying shoulders up with all the world leaders at all these famous dinners around all the world all the time. So, we're not going to have a choice. We're going to have to spend somebody's dollars. >> Sure. going to be Google dollars >> or meta dollars or >> like if you think about whenever I think about money or spending money you're I I definitely see it going back to more of like I'm spending whatever currency that is appropriate for what I'm for the service I'm consuming because with Bitcoin it really changed my brain in terms of thinking about money in a lot of ways in that I think about holding something that can't be manipulated much as possible. So that tends to be cryptocurrencies. Unfortunately, that's a little more volatile than other things to hold. And when I want to spend something, I convert it to what whatever's the services I'm using that requires it. So like if I'm talking about my my taxes, I'll convert it to US dollars and whatever the hell awful CBDC the US makes. um you know it's what I spend whatever if I go traveling I convert it to something else and use that use that but like now even more so as it as crypto proliferates and US dollar sinks and devaluation and whatever that that I think the ability to think that way is more useful. H well, it appears that Ken also agrees with me that Elon can make a buttload because yolo and he's going to come on uh dialing in from Gangnum drunk as to talk a little bit more about >> Tether that we don't why it's okay. >> Yeah, that we don't know. >> I'm reading the uh Decrypt press release on this. I still haven't figured out what exactly they're trying to do. >> The reason why I get so unexcited about stable coin news is because it is nothing different. It's just a repeat of history. There's nothing new. >> Things need to be stable. Things need to be stable. You want >> What does that even mean? Nothing is stable. Come on, physics guy. >> He's right. He's right. >> What does that even mean? Nothing is >> relatively stable. It's it's a relatively >> I'm sorry you don't understand relative things, but if you're ever going to build a business that has to plan, you at least need to be able to understand that what you have in terms of goods and services and what you've stocked up going to be worth the amount of value that you think it is when you need to get rid of it. >> So >> you need relative stability to the timeline in which you're doing things. >> So I'd like to add to the audience so they know this. I've been a COO, so I know a thing or two about planning and forecasting. >> And let me tell you something. Stability is in the eye of the beholder. Okay? There's no stability. You work through the volatility of it all. >> And how much easier when it's not volatile. How much easier is it when it's not volatile? >> It's no less volatile because then you have harder decisions to make. Like what do we do with these giant piles of money that we didn't expect to have? >> Oh, we have more money. Oh, >> these easy decisions. Those are not easy decisions. You think those are easy choices? Those are tough choices. >> No, we have all this money to figure out what to do with cuz things are stable. The out of here. >> Those are not easy decisions either. Like, oh we things are stable, right? But now we have all this money and we have too many people. >> Well, >> We're so successful. What are we going to do? It's been stable. >> Terrible problem. Guess >> Yeah, we hear you. We have a guest. We have a guest. So, like, um, I'd love to start like a high overview here, you know? First of all, >> wait, wait, man. You're getting way too into it. We got to showify this a little bit. Hey, Ken. Hey, Ken. Welcome to the Bitcoin podcast. Where you calling in from? Are you a first time caller? Long time listener. >> Yes, sir. Uh, oh, no. Second time caller. I was on Hashing It Out 2019. >> Quite a bit. I had five lines then. Yes, sir. It was It was such a great show. It It was really cool. We talked about decentralization and how AWS is uh all the way down and unfortunately you know here we are today um with proof of stake at this time but you know that's another conversation. Um I would love to start from a high overview here. Um so I've been talking to a lot of institutions from a stable coin matter and unfortunately regulatory confinement and where the red tape is you know you're like oh why is Tether raising all of this? Well, let's start from where they started, right? It was such a a show, personally speaking. Um, and you know, to be able to instrument and kind of accumulate all this capital and all this capital interest over time with a team of like 13 to 20 and then become, you know, one of the largest stable coins in this industry sector. um you know over time you have to have some sort of treasury or some sort of ambition to get over these new regulatory hurdles once the world takes you a little bit more serious and I think at that point that's where this raise comes into effect which do I think they're biting off more than they need? Yes. Sorry. I know I know I'm like in the middle of a potential partnership agreement with them but like sorry guys the raises you don't need that much but you you do need some right. Um, so getting over that hurdle, I think that a lot of people fail to forget that when you're trying to deal with institutional, you know, POVs such as the US government, you know, the EU, the UN, whatever you want to say, um, it is it's quite expensive and, um, you know, making sure that you're following the right, you know, guidelines and all this other stupid it can be quite hectic. Um, so that's just my personal perspective on like why Tether is doing this raise and why they're trying to expand their ambitions a little bit deeper. Um, because I feel like they're trying to be a circle competitor and right now they don't have the infrastructure for that personally speaking and I think that you know with this new ambition that's essentially where they're aiming at which is I think it'd be great to have a USDT and a USDC you know too much centralization from a stable coin perspective is just not good. It's not a good show. It's not good business. >> So, if we had two major players, it'd be great. >> I have I have three questions. One, >> uh I think Tether is a conspiracy by the NSA that they US is allowed to exist for a long period of time, but maybe I'm absolutely wrong. >> Step one, conspiracy. >> Okay. Yeah. Nice. >> And and uh because like like have they ever been really audited? I mean, no. >> I'm I'm No, I don't think so. I don't think they have been audited to the extent that we'd require somebody such as, you know, homegrown talent. You skepticism. Yeah, the skepticism definitely should be there. You know, I I agree with you there for sure. >> And then when when you say they don't have the similar infrastructure to circle uh in terms of uh what like what does that actually mean? Yeah, that's such a hand wavy comment. I know. Um, I would say, you know, where they're where they're located, it's about 16 employees. You're not accomplishing as much as you would if you were, you know, kind of like a thousand employee base at SF. uh having the the capital runway like Circle does the connections that Circle does and you know from a government standpoint because it's all regulatory you know practices at that point I mean especially when it comes to execution layer um of people individuals you know you got to make sure that like you have the right people in the right areas but um yeah I would just say that's that's probably the best response you know considering that you know I'm not a I run out of rag fly guy. That's just not my thing. You know, I'm dealt with the SEC once. that. Never again. >> Um but yeah, that's uh yeah, that was quite a show. >> But um yeah, no, I just I couldn't uh I don't know. I couldn't give you a really accurate answer in that sense. >> Okay. Okay. So then my my third question is in terms of uh legitimizing the operation as you were saying that this this raise is aiming to do who are the people who are actually contributing to that that capital that 20 billion. >> That's a good question. I um if you follow USDT's timeline, you'll understand that Justin Sun is like that's his baby. So >> interesting. That feels that feels compromising. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Say the least. >> Very compromising. >> If you're like squinting at that one, >> then you should be. >> Yeah. It's um I'm getting >> Tether is Justin Sun's baby. >> Even said it from that's the first thing you said. Tether's a show. It started as a show. Yeah. >> So, Tether has the most transactional volume on Tron and Tron is Justin Suns. Justin Sun has been doing like a lot of acquisitions. >> Justin Sun is is China Ethereum. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and on top of that, he is, you know, you know, Southeast Asia Cabal in that sense. Um, isn't he a felon that one? >> I mean, he's probably lots of things. >> Yeah, he's seen a lot of He's also your excellency. What is he like Geneva? Like you know some government official. It's it's it's it's super hilarious where this guy's timeline is. >> What happens when you make a bunch of fake money and then >> Yeah. Yeah. You protect everybody >> surveil and control. >> It's almost like when there's too much money out there, the fabric of society stops making sense. >> We just can take care of that. That's for sure. >> Well, D has the answer. You just make things less stable and you don't you can't you can't forecast at all. So then you can't do business and it's fine. >> Yeah, >> that's not a answer. >> Is like say any of that. >> Yes, you did. >> Objection, your honor. I said nothing is stable. I don't know if I said I want to introduce instability. >> You said nothing is stable. When I said the reason for stability, you're like yeah, because you end up with too much money and like success. >> Yeah, you wanted to eat Elon Musk toes, bro. Like >> that's just from a movie that I saw. I don't want >> Yeah, you're right. You're right. Look, it's just that's from a movie that I saw. Like they were like, "Eat the rich or something like that." It was pretty funny. >> Toes. >> The toes were were pretty funny. >> I think that's what they meant. They said, "Eat the rich." They just like, "Let's like dine on their toes." Was it like the first thing? >> Like that's >> We're not going to go down that conversation. That's a conversation that gets you canceled. I think >> eating toes. >> No, sucking toes is fine, but you eat them. That's different. >> You said these words. These are your words. I understand that. But >> so for me personally with uh the Bitfinex conversation and the USDT alignment and again like I >> I say this and it's probably going to bite me in the ass, but like um you know the connection to JSON and like you know this quote unquote you know Southeast Asian cabal is very extensive and people kind of underestimate how deep it runs. And then from that perspective, you have the USDT alignment with several different ecosystems. And what is the one last harrah that you know USDT would essentially need and that's a legitimizing raise that aligns more with the US government as well as the UN and so on so forth with miscellaneous agendas that get him these clearances and it's just like Jon's final sunset, right? >> So that's just like conspiracy theory there. But like at the end of it really does make sense, you know? Every day. Every day. >> More money. That's how that's how you That's how it works. >> Yeah. Once you make a certain amount of money, it's just like, you know, you either become velocity. >> Yeah. You either become a Musk or you become a Jack Mah or whatever his name was. Uh >> Yep. >> It's one or the other. But yeah, no to >> so lame. >> Yeah, >> it's so lame. It is. It's very It's a very lame. >> They suck. >> I think so. But I also think it's going to help a lot of people especially when we have an international recognized asset from a stable coin perspective because you know when you're trying to interact from a B2B perspective you know and I know it's 2025 but like making simple payments across borders is actually still a pretty big issue. >> Um >> well it's it's not a big issue because >> but it's not a big issue because of technology. It's a big issue because I mean I have I have very good friends. I have very good Cuban friends here where I live >> and they would say like, "Hey, it's as easy as this. I send 100 home and 99 goes to the Cuban government. One goes to my family. So that’s why we get on boats and come over here to Miami.” Like that’s that’s what it is. It’s got nothing to do with technology. >> It’s got to do with human entities. I >> mean technology because the human the technology allows for the human entities to intervene. Yeah. >> Yeah. But even if there was some mystical Go ahead. Go ahead, Kim. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, like kind of piggybacking off Cory on that one, you know, when the CCP took over Hong Kong, I had a lot of friends who were coming back to the United States. Um, they couldn’t bring a lot of assets with them, but one thing that they did bring was Bitcoin. When you have a PK in your wallet, you know, embedded in a file or some like people, they didn’t know. But if I went out there with like oh hey you know I got like five Rolexes and you know like 100 racks and all this other like people were getting pulled aside like hey you can’t it’s not happen you’re not leaving there with this you know so like I think when it comes from a government standpoint I think we you know what what kind of brought us all here today is like that distributed access network of like being able to move money from point A to point B without necessarily having this government restriction. And I think the stable coin does introduce a little bit more regulatory confinement around that. But it also does enable more freedom of access and not having to worry about like let’s say if I’m going from like I don’t know like Syria to Lebanon, you know, if I have a bunch of USDT like I’m chilling like you know it’s probably at that point it’s probably going to be insured in five years just like if it was a bank transfer. Um so yeah I think that’s just there’s just different perspectives to it you know. I mean, I don’t disagree with you, >> but I think governments get smarter over time. Like, everyone thinks governments are these monolithic big dummies, but there’s some incredibly intelligent people that work with these government entities, probably the smartest on the planet Earth. >> And >> once they figure it out, like there’s a reason why stable coins are proliferated right now because they want to know every transaction that happens everywhere at any time on this planet or the next. >> And once they know that, they’re going to do the same things. They’re going to say, “Oh, who are you? You’re walking in here with some foo jeans from 2002. Oh, you looking poor. Let me just take a look at all the blockchains at once. Oh you’re actually worth 5 million. Yeah, you're not going anywhere, >> right? Like >> I completely agree with you there. Yeah, >> like we've created the last boss. And I guess it's okay cuz we're on his team. Like we're the little limings that go out and fight the people trying to beat the last boss. I guess I have a really hard time fighting the last boss. But like >> I mean >> like feel like I'm playing both sides sometimes, you know, especially, you know, past experience with like trail bits like working with some of these individuals who were aligned with like the US gov side and like working from like the blockchain department. Like it was really nice, you know, kind of like learning where everybody's head's at from an institutional perspective. But like at the end of the day, you know, you kind of got to realize like we're playing both sides of the field sometimes unfortunately. Um, >> well, understanding both sides is useful for >> conducting yourself appropriately. Like, so like I like I'd like to understand >> for me to make good decisions, I need to know as much as I can. And if you just assume as much as you can about the other side, then you're going to make bad decisions about it. >> Yeah. No, that that makes more sense. That's that's a sober mind for you. >> You guys try to raise 20 billion real quick. >> Looks less. >> I'm down. >> Say less. probably hire a producer. >> Let's Let's do a Have you guys >> Have you guys seen the uh Astera or whatever the uh the new It's like the Chinese Hyperledger or Hyperlid? Sorry. >> No, >> dude. That chart 3,000%. Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty sure you've heard of it, Jesse. I mean, you're more of a deacon, too. >> Um yeah, this >> deacon. Deacon. Sorry. >> No, >> a deacon is established. A degan is demure. A degan is demure. But Aden, no. >> Yeah, >> deure. >> I like that. But no. Yeah. So, Aster Aster was like the uh the hyperlquid narrative, but coming from a different um region in that sense. And uh that's kind of been a little bit of a play if like you look into like the you know social aspect of things over the last two weeks is like people launching these hyperlquid you know I would say alternatives um into different ecosystems and uh yeah trading those has been instrumental for some people. I I >> people >> to riff on on uh I think I think uh Corey and D don't have enough conversations with people in the community of the podcast to understand how Djen some people really are. >> Well, I know some of these people den even people in the organization I work for. >> I just don't do it. I understand it. I just don't do it. I don't even want to be introduced to it. Like I don't I don't I don't >> I want you guys to be more in the trenches, man. I mean like I think that helps a lot of like the exposure. >> I am in the trenches. I'm in the deep infrastructure technology trenches. I don't you get in the trenches. You poke your head up and you get shot. >> Absolute. Yeah. >> He's not at the in the application layer trenches. He's he's in the we build >> Yeah. No, I get that completely. I just mean I meant more so of like the uh the current narratives and kind of like maybe it's places you don't you don't want to be involved with you know like I mean I get that you know >> I pick my head up and have some fun and then I and I say that was fun and then I go back down into my little hole and I stay there for a while. >> Oh no I completely get that. That's that's me like every three months I pop out you know get involved start doing nonsense you know trading or whatever and then like I'm like all right it's almost Christmas I'm done. I made a I made a bunch of money off That was fun. And then I sold it and walked away. >> Yep. >> He bounced on it and then rotated off of it. >> That's a good one. That's a good one. >> I'll never be perfected. >> Anyways, I don't I can't I can't get in the trenches, man. Cuz when you're in the trenches, you lift your head up, you get shot in the face. I don't have time for that. >> That is absolutely true. I have had such insatiable runs and then like get absolutely obliterated and then I'm just like, "Wow, that was a waste of 24 hours." >> Yeah. And then like I don't have time for people hacking my PlayStation and then my life is gone. >> Here's a good question for you. That's that's actually a good point. >> Uh so that 24 hours, are there lessons learned or are you just like, "Okay, that was a waste of time. You just move on and do it again or like are you growing as an individual when you do these 24-hour goon sessions? you know, honestly, go stash, that's a good one. Um, honestly, yeah, patience is a virtue. And I feel like kind of being on that edge and being able to expand into like maybe this meta is not going to be beneficial in the next, you know, 12 hours from that 24-hour session, right? Um, being able to cut your your gains and your losses and making sure that like that that time of attention because everything's like Zoomer now, right? Like everything needs to be just like instantaneous. a meta is you know every three days you know it's kind of like I mentioned the last you know two weeks or a week or so it's like the astro nonsense um yeah I would say every every time period is a reflection of um beneficial for me personally because it's like you learn something right either you were impatient or you were you know not necessarily the clearest head to make an execution on a trade and it's like now you wasted your time which is fine but you know at the end of the day it's just like more of a self inflection point. >> I like how um I guess there's DGEN in terms of like the gambling aspect like trading uh whatever is in meta and then there's like the >> builder side of things like for instance Joe from the >> Yeah, >> he he's uh he's exploring what it's like to launch a project on pub.fund fun and I was there watching from the beginning and I I was just watching him get really excited. But like because I'd done that in 2020 to 2022, I know what's going to happen. >> But like I'm just watching him kind of discover things for the first time >> and um Yeah. Know >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's interesting cuz like >> Yeah. Jesse, he's he's gonna go from like like you to that initial point of where like he's just like dabbling and then he's gonna like start exploring like me bots that are running on these platforms. >> He's like get deeper and deeper and deeper. Yeah. >> I'll be interviewing a uh uh automation/botting company or framework here next week on hashing it out. Check that one out. >> There you go. >> Flashbots. >> Silverback. >> Oh no. Um, >> so Rebecca, >> it's intense. >> I mean, I just >> the I approached this kin from like a like a bastion of the people like like the people's champ like The Rock >> and uh but darker and depending on angle slightly more handsome >> and I just I I introduced Avalanche to somebody four years ago, three, four years ago. >> Changed their life, right? And then this normal person took out a portion a sizable impactful portion of their savings of their life and was like, "I'm buying all this chicken egg." And I was like, "Don't don't buy digital chicken eggs, dude. >> Don't buy digital chicken eggs, dude. That's not what you want to do." And he's like, "No, man. >> Trust me. I got you in here. >> I know what I'm doing now. And you and I want to thank you for my crypto now. M stop. Don't do that. And he did it. And now we're two years after the obviously Chicken is going to do what all NFTTS do. >> Yeah. >> And now I feel like he's got this disdain for me because he's like, you didn't prevent me from buying all these fake digital chicken eggs. And I'm like, I didn't tell you to do any of that. And so it's like I I as a bastion of the people that is where crypto frustrates me to the highest end is like we can mature guys. We can mature and we can kind of fulfill some of the original promises that we had if we try hard enough. But I don't know if we're ever going to have enough human energy to try hard enough. I just it's very very hard to say that because you know I've made so many of my friends millionaires and then I've also made a lot of my friends millionaires and they lose it all and then like they're like I'm going to kill you and I'm just like >> well that your fault though. >> You know what I'm saying? Like it's like it's like you you know paper hand whatever you know or whatever the case may be. Like that's not like I never came for like you need to do this you need to do that. I was just simply showing you like, hey, this is what MET is or this is what you know a validator node is or this is how you know you can capitalize if you're doing this strategy or this and that. Like as far as assets, I never like directly shield anything else besides Bitcoin, not even Ethereum to be quite frankly, which I'm a I'm a big bag holder of Ethereum, but um I just felt like, you know, at the end of the day, the principle was just always to just stay based on that one, right? and let other people kind of dabble and figure it out themselves. But like it's just human nature to sometimes unfortunately blame the faults of their own decision-m on other people. And like >> I was going to bring this up before you brought that you know that last point up, but um you know you you had this old uh bare market bull market uh tempo tracker. What was it? The uh the auntie uh was it the >> the auntie index >> index? It's such a good one. >> Yeah, it really is. And I think, you know, wi with that being said, like the auntie index, like you know, when it's when it's swinging too far to the right or too far to the left or however you measure it, um you know, you have to be in consideration of like maybe we should just like >> not be trying to Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe just showing people like, hey, because like I've always approached it from like a, hey, this is the technology. This is really cool. never like, hey, you need to like throw your entire life savings in, you know, because for whatever the case may be. But yeah. No, so I think like, you know, you coming back into that consideration of your friend, like I wouldn't feel upset or guilty about it because, you know, at the end of the day, we're all human and we're all just trying to help each other out in some way, shape, or form. And like if some people take it a little bit too more extreme than the others, and it's kind of like the fault of their own nature, you know, like what can we do about that? >> Yeah, I get that and he gets that. But I know deep down he's got that grain of, yeah, I want to pull this guy. >> Yeah, but it's the same as like here's the thing, right? Like we started out with, you know, adoption was the only thing that matters and then you have the >> remember you guys are calling like Burger King and That was awesome. >> Yeah. Like that like that auntie index shifts over time because with each new wave we have even further expansion of like exposure to different parts of crypto like Robin Hood. you have all these different platforms that give people such easy exposure to these things. >> It's not real ownership, but it's exposure. And then it just gives them this free license to like do the same thing they do with like penny stocks or whatever. And >> exactly. >> And then they do it and like, well, crypto's bad. It's like you've done the same thing with with penny stocks. Like it's this is your fault. >> And so >> our ability to keep people informed and making same decisions. Our my advice has been the exact same this whole way through. But because the exposure has changed and grown rapidly, it's more difficult to keep people on that same advice because it's so easy for them to up. >> Yeah. Yeah, that is true. I remember when you guys were only talking about like just Bitcoin and Ethereum and then like alts started coming out and you're like maybe Litecoin and then like that was it and then all these like you know the whole market got flooded and ners are just like all right you know this is where my attention on >> one of Joe's products he's launching is basically like hey there's a bunch of out there you want to turn it back into something that's useful because this exposure is so massive right he's like hey you got a bunch of dust and crap in there want to make it something useful real pass like >> Yeah, I like Joe's. >> Wasn't uh weren't Weren't you guys sponsored by somebody that was like similar to that? It was like uh lawn >> lawn mower >> lawn maker. Lawn mower. >> Yeah. Yeah. Way way back in the day. >> But lawnmower was a service that allowed you to round up your >> spending and invest in Bitcoin. >> Yeah. So, that was really cool. That was such a cool thing. But then I think regulatory capture problems got them messed up with Coinbase. Like you'd use your credit card and then it would round up and then you buy that amount of whatever that roundup is in Bitcoin. >> Mhm. >> That was really awesome. >> What are those two doing these days? >> They're doing I know they're doing well, man. I I ran into one of them >> at a my what I ran into him at a Miami Bitcoin conference >> and it just seemed like he was working for um >> damn I forget who he was working for. It was one of those huge companies in crypto like circleesque and uh he was just kind of predicting a lot of what's happening right now with stable coins. He was like yeah stable coins are going to be the play. >> Coines huh? >> Coindesk. >> Who owns consensus? >> Who runs the consensus conference? Is it CoinDesk? >> Coines. Coines runs that. >> I think he was working for them. >> CoinDesk. >> Yeah, >> that makes sense. Coindesk is rather large. I loved CoinDex for a long time. >> Find out what those dudes names were and what they're doing. >> Queens on LinkedIn. >> Yeah, we made a theme. >> There's another one of your old guests. There's another one of your old guests that's still up and running is Plutus. >> Plutus is still going. Yep. No, Plutus is going strong, >> dude. They're still running strong. >> Don't believe you. >> Yeah, they they never changed. >> You know who else is expanding, too? >> Kudos to them. Like, good >> Bit wage. Bit wage is turning into a big deal here in the states >> because of it allows people >> they want to get paid in crypto. They can. >> So, >> but then Coinbase is eating their Coinbase is kind of eating their lunch with you can direct deposit straight into Coinbase and like automate all of your investing now, >> which is something that I really am thinking. >> I think there was there was another one too where you can like do your deposits directly into Bitcoin. I think it was like strike or something like that way back in like 2023, 2024. I don't know. >> Sounds very familiar. >> Russell Russell a Kong I think he was uh one of them. He's like the NFL guys. He was like investing in them back in the day. >> Yep. >> I've been trying to get him on the show for years. He does not like small podcasts. I will tell you that much. >> He is a He is I'm going on >> ESPN or broke for Mr. Russell Oung. But uh >> yeah, man, that sucks. >> Yeah, I remember following him initially with the uh when he was doing like the fasting stuff, right? And I was just like, "Oh, this is cool." And then I was like, "Oh, he's a Bitcoin guy." Like that's that's even cooler. Like, you know, let's keep it real. >> He did a 100 day fast. It's crazy. >> Yeah. Yeah. I Dude, I I went to like 28 and I was like, I'm going to blow my off. Like, there's no way. I keep going. You >> fasted for 28 days? >> Yeah. Yeah, they're probably going to do 28 hours, dude. Food is so good. >> Oh, it's it's so it's so bad. It's such a mental like hangup, you know? And then like when you finally see, I messed up, dude. Like I I don't know if you guys are like Southern California familiar, but like when I broke my fast, I went to the hat, which is like this pastrami dip spot. Just like started grubbing on a pastrami dip. And then like I'm like passing out there in the booth like I'm I'm I'm not going to wake up from this. I'm going to die. I heard it's harsh when you >> I heard it's harsh when you come when you eat solid foods after fasting. Were you doing like a water fast or is it like a juice fast? Like how did >> It was uh It was broth and water. >> Um Okay. >> Yeah. So like when I when I took my first meal, I didn't know because like I'm just kind of just like gruntly doing things half the time in life and I was just like, "Oh, cool." You know, my fast is over. I can't do this anymore. Like I'm just going to go pick up a sandwich. And then I midway into the sandwich I was like, "Oh my god." Like why am I so sleepy? Like I can't stay awake. This sucks. >> Why did you Why did you do the fast in the first place? Like what prompted that? Just watching this guy do it. >> No, it was just more Oh, this is way before Russell. This is just more of like a personal a personal thing. Like I was just like I want to get into fasting because I feel like it helps, you know, learning um more of like self-control, you know, body health and then just like also like patience, right? Because I feel like I I can't stress that enough like you know, as you expand into certain things in different areas like >> you know especially as a trader like you just need to learn that patience virtue because that's just I don't know that's beneficial. I mean, like, some of you guys are dads. Like, isn't patience like such the best thing for you to accomplish? Like, as you know, you're like having these kids grow up like >> Yeah. Why don't you speak on patience, guys? >> I mean, >> when you finally >> started in 2015, you know, like, talk about patience, you know? Like, >> it's very true. It's very true. >> Still here. Like, you guys have a lot of those virtues already, you know? It's just a matter of execution. >> Wow. I don't I'm not going anywhere. I just am very I'm turning into an old cranky because >> you're you're older. >> Because it's like we're doing all of this. It's it's all it's all motion and no action. Like that's the way it feels like for me is like we're doing all these things and nothing is really changing, right? Like nothing is changing. We're just doing >> What kind of change do you want though, though? you know, like it's I feel like the >> I don't want dudes walking thinking they're worth 2 trillion. That’s what I don’t want. That would be like one that is a tech industry issue. That is a fun >> I think it’s a human issue. I think it’s it’s it’s I think it doesn’t necessarily like it’s it’s it’s applicable to our space to in a sense, but it’s not like >> you know, you have to also consider inflation. Like there’s this fundamental issue. The reason I get cranky is for 10 years >> I’ve been talking on not this microphone but a microphone >> and even off the microphone >> saying hey this is going to happen because math works and then people are like nuhuh and I’m like yeah I mean math has rules and the inflation of money forever is not a rule that can continue forever. So, like you gotta, you know, buy some Bitcoin, buy some other app, do that thing. And then humans, all the humans, even ones that, you know, more educated than me, more experienced than me, that trust me fully, they’re just like, “No, that’s stupid. What you’re saying is a dumb thing.” And I’m like, “Okay, all right.” And then as it starts to happen, they’re still like, “No, you’re still saying dumb things.” So, like, I’m at a point now where I am a little bit cranky. I’m like, “Okay, well, humans are going to human and there’s no stopping that.” So we can whether it’s Bitcoin, whether it’s Ethereum, whether it’s I don’t know Mars token, whether it’s Saturn bucks, doesn’t matter. We’re just going to humans are going to human and we’re not really changing much. >> I think blockchain technology as a whole consensus is not going to affect the distribution of wealth, nor is it going to help uh inflation, nor is it going to help human greed in that aspect. um unfortunately. But like >> I do think that like it’s helping distribution in a sense. I mean I I hate to be that guy but like I know a lot of you know Filipino communities who just made bags off of you know like Axi Infinity right like Ronin back then. Like I know a lot of Vietnamese communities that have made insatiable amounts through BSC season. I think it’s helped a lot of people circumvent like a lot of western assets back into their own localities in the sense, you know, I have a lot of friends who started, you know, trapped from trapping in the hood all the way down to like now they’re just like living at large in in Miami and doing things great for themselves, you know, and like in a professional manner, too. Now it’s just like so I think that the distribution of wealth from a blockchain narrative happens but it’s more so from a technological distribution versus like an actual like there’s one asset that’s helping everybody. I think it’s just the opportunity. It’s opportunistic in that sense. It’s not like the assets themselves are doing anything. I think it’s just people coming in early doing something nice and then like figuring it out for themselves which unfortunately aligns more with gambling. It really does sometimes. But um yeah, that’s just >> it’s all gambling. Everything’s gambling. People are taking gamles. Yeah, people are taking gamles and sometimes it’s paying off. And unfortunately, >> the only difference between gambling and investment is confidence. >> There you go. Yeah, that’s who’s saying it, right? It’s coming from a guy in a suit or >> put that on a shirt t-shirt. >> Put that on a shirt right there. Who said that? >> I said that. I just made that up. >> Coin that Somebody, whoever is gonna add this, >> someone has had to have said that, but I just made it up. >> I don’t think so, man. I’ve I’ve read the investing books by the guys. Was it Ray >> Doll by the guys? >> That’s the first time I’ve heard that one. >> Well, there’s Ray Dollio. There’s the Oracle Omaha dude, and there’s that other guy, Mer. I’ve read their books. >> Nobody said that. Cory Cory, write a book. >> 2000s guy. >> I am writing a book. It’s not about that. >> What’s his name? >> Make sure you’re using like AI to help you with that. I’ve been looking up the the where the founders of Lawnmower went and they’re all kind of one guy just fell off the map. Uh Alex Sunenberg works for some investment holdings company. Peter Gorsa as a staff data engineer at BlockFi. >> Patrick, check what he’s doing here real quick. I hit him up just to make sure see if they want to come on and say what’s up. >> Now I want to like >> AI and automation >> is it? I want to leverage my my crypto knowledge and experience into >> head of automation TRM. >> They did a great job. All these guys went on to do some cool stuff. All went through Coindesk though. Interestingly, interesting enough, I think they bought I think Lawnmower got bought by Coin Coindesk and then they then I guess individually went their separate ways within CoinDesk at all and went on to some financial or engineering position somewhere else >> which seems to be kind of standard track over time. Yeah. Yeah. You see a lot of products come out like that, you know, they they kind of hit a certain sector, scale up pretty well, they get hit a certain valuation, they either get bought out, acquired or just like sunset, right? And um unfortunately those really good products don’t hit massive market size, you know? But like we are like, “Hey, yeah, that was really great.” But unfortunately, like my mom’s never heard of them, you know? Like you’re you’re pretty sure your family guys like you have never heard of them. But um yeah. No, I mean that’s it’s really good to see find success in that sense. You know, >> there’s so much success >> in places that no one’s ever heard of. I mean like the majority of finance happens in places that no one’s ever heard of. Like even the most expensive valuable companies in the world are things that no one’s ever heard of. So like >> yeah, my mom doesn’t know who the Stripe is. Do >> you know the East India Trading Company is still like >> it’s still there? Yeah. >> It’s still like it’s like $400 trillion. >> It’s insane. It’s insane, man. It’s insane. >> So, I guess >> this conversation has actually been kind of enlightening is that my scope for change needs to shrink down and like maybe, just maybe, blockchain and crypto is going to change like the B2B world, right? It’s going to change how things operate with B2B, which quite frankly, B2B kind of runs the show. I mean, like B to consumer is great. If you can if you can do a B to B TOC business and it works great for you, congratulations. Hats off to you. But B2B is like that’s where the rubber meets the road, like where you’re servicing big chunks and swaths of people all at once cuz just trying to satisfy one customer is enough. And like maybe if there’s a change there, then maybe there will be some what do you call trickle down effects. Yeah, there’s still a section of us that are holding off with uh building infrastructure that changes society. It’s not just this kind of like >> capitulation into I guess we got to remake the financial industry >> like >> Yeah. No, >> there’s still quite a few of us that aren’t as loud or throwing as much money around that are trying to >> Yeah. >> do something different Bitcoin, >> right? >> Yeah. That’s the beauty of it too though, you know, was like, you know, there’s a lot of great product out there and a lot of great things being built out there that don’t necessarily need people beating their drum and, you know, being on Instagram, Tik Toks, and all this other nonsense because that’s not their that’s not the quote unquote market share, you know, and I I Well, I think that’s my my biggest point, too, is like I think um you know, it’s it’s great to attack the wider net and like how you were talking about D like you know, I need to think of it from a wider thing, but now I got to scope it down. No, I I think it’s just there’s there’s different fits along this industry sector. And um I think we can’t put everybody in the same basket, you know? >> Not anymore. >> Yeah. Yeah. Especially not not today’s age. Maybe back in the day it was pretty cool to kind of like segment everybody in like three corners, but now there’s like a thousand coins, you know? It’s it’s it’s very interesting. Um, so you think about this in perspective, right? Like the crypto technology like the >> the whole thing the the underllayment of how all the stuff works, different networks and their differences or whatever is just a more generalized version of what we already had. So we’ll still rebuild and improve on what we already had, but also do different things. >> There’s just more diverse, >> but it’s not going to like in a lot of ways it’s all going to be the same We just have more options to do more things. Hopefully for people like me, like we hope that like those new things take over and are better, but who knows? But the powers that be or the powers that be >> I think the beauty of it is too used to make this this this uh comparison way back in the day is like it’s like the internet, you know, way way way a long time ago. Like people didn’t realize that they’re using the internet for the same things they’re doing today like 10 years ago, right? And the internet’s been around for god knows how long at this point. Um, but now from an application layer, you know, from a consensus layer, like there’s just so many different things being accomplished on the internet. I mean, look at what we’re doing right now. >> Yeah. >> Having this conversation here. >> Oh, man. I was thinking about that, you know, it’s just like, >> yeah, why can’t that be applied to, you know, our sector in that sense? Like there’s just so many different application layers and so many different things that are going to get accomplished over the next 10 years and have been accomplished over the first 10 years. Um, and I think that’s really cool, you know. So, it’s like, >> yeah, >> you know, for for my cipher punk bros, like never lose hope, you know, like we’re definitely changing something as a whole conceptually, but it’s just a matter of like, you know, understanding that there’s just different inflection points. >> Words of wisdom from somebody in the trenches. >> Thank you, >> 28 days. >> Thank you, Ken, for joining us. If you’re listening, we hope you enjoy the conversation. You’re more than likely listening. A lot of people don’t watch us. Uh it’s okay if you don’t. >> Uh you’re just missing three incredibly handsome individuals talk about crypto and that’s your fault. Um but if you do watch us, uh click all the clickity clicks below and um I don’t know, tell your friends and family about us. Say like, “Hey, these guys are into crypto, but they’re not crypto bros. They’re they’re crypto dudes, >> right? >> We’re crypto men. Crypto dads and crypto men and and we have a different lens on this stuff. So, um, >> shout out to Zoe SA. I see you, girl. >> Still, you’re still running that. >> Why wouldn’t he? Why wouldn’t he be? >> That’s so awesome. That’s so awesome. >> I even got the hall pass from wifey. She said, I totally understand. >> yeah. And I said, “Listen, you can have a hall pass, too. Just don’t let it be an NFL player, please. I can’t >> holy shit.” >> Yeah. Can’t follow that. Like, you’ll never look at me the same. >> Oh my god. >> I can’t believe I heard you throwing that shout out for like a third of my life. That’s awesome. >> We see you, Zoe. One of these days, we’ll get you on the show and we’re going to talk about that uh shitcoin that you sponsored and got sued for. Um, anyways, uh, go to the bitcoinpodcast.com. You can see all of the episodes from season one. All 400 episodes from season one. >> I’m read so you can get them all. We start uploading stuff to a website. >> And we have some episodes that you should be listening to right about the time you listen to this one. Um, so, um, >> I don’t know what else what else do we have, Jesse? He wanted to talk about the stuff that we were doing, but then we had this impromptu curveball calling in Ken. We’re supposed to talk about regulatory capture and the stuff that we’re building for >> much better. Now we knew now we know more about Tether and that it’s owned by Justin Sun. >> Did not know that. >> Got a scoop. >> Get a scoop. >> I I have a small story about Tether, but I can’t tell it on this episode. I’ll tell the next episode. Uh, play the outro. Thanks.