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Episode Description
In this episode of the Bitcoin Podcast, hosts Dee, Corey, Jessie, and Ahmad cover a wide-ranging discussion about Bitcoin Ordinals, a new protocol for creating non-fungible tokens (NFTs) on the Bitcoin blockchain, highlighting the potential and ongoing debates about their utility. Corey offers a detailed explanation of the concept and its origin, tracing it back to the NFT craze on Ethereum and the broader development in the blockchain ecosystem. The team also touches on the broader implications and challenges of integrating fungibility with non-fungibility in digital assets, drawing parallels with game economies and discussing the nuances of collectibility and community dynamics. Throughout the conversation, they also reflect on the lessons learned from previous ventures in NFTs and digital collectibles, emphasizing the importance of sustainable community support for any token’s lasting value.
Chapters
- 00:00:00 How Did the Bitcoin Podcast Begin Again?
- 00:00:52 What’s New in Season Two and Who’s Hosting?
- 00:00:57 Are Bitcoin Ordinals Changing the NFT Game?
- 00:01:46 Is Being Busy Always a Bad Thing?
- 00:03:11 How Does Corey Handle All Hands Meetings?
- 00:03:41 What’s the Secret to Dee’s Wedding Planning?
- 00:04:12 Should We All Be Eating More Pineapples?
- 00:04:41 How Are Bitcoin Ordinals Similar to NFTs?
- 00:06:05 Are Bitcoin NFTs a Copycat of Ethereum?
- 00:06:47 Why Did Bitcoin Once Dismiss NFTs?
- 00:07:10 What is Fungibility, and How Is Bitcoin Redefining It?
- 00:09:06 Are NFTs Just an Artificial Craze, or Is There More to Them?
- 00:10:11 What’s the Connection Between Gaming Skins and NFTs?
- 00:11:47 Could Game Economies and the Black Market Collide?
- 00:13:13 How Do Tokens Resemble an Ecological Balance?
- 00:15:35 Can Different Game Economies Be Unified by Blockchain?
- 00:20:02 What Makes Bitcoin NFTs Unique Compared to Ethereum’s?
- 00:22:25 Why Does Rarity Matter in Bitcoin Ordinals?
- 00:24:10 Can the Auditability of UTXOs Affect Bitcoin’s Fungibility?
- 00:25:50 Are Certain Physical Items Actually NFTs in Disguise?
- 00:26:22 Why Should We Avoid Cash in Favor of Digital Currencies?
- 00:27:00 How Did the Chicken NFT Craze Take Off?
- 00:31:00 Which Factors Determine the Long-Term Value of Tokens?
- 00:34:06 What Lessons Have We Learned From the Chicken NFT Craze?
Transcript
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It’s a Bitcoin podcast. The only one that’s making your money you listening to the Bitcoin market. So hold on to the Bitcoin. Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Bitcoin Podcast. Season two, episode two. I’m the host that talks first, D. I’m second host, Dr. Petty. Third host, Jesse. And I don’t think I’m the fourth host. I’m like a guest. No, you’re host. I’m the fourth host now, guys. You’re hosting today. Season two. Season two host. Started from the bottom. Now you’re here. Yeah. That’s right. So, uh, welcome to our deep dive into Bitcoin ordinals. What are Bitcoin orals? Well, they’re a gamechanging concept, okay, in the world of digital collectibles. You remember NFTTS? Well, imagine each Satoshi is a tiny token of history, right? So, we we’ve uh been wanting to talk about ordinals for a while. Orninals are like Bitcoin’s version of NFTTS. Uh, I have some ordinals. I’m pretty sure the fellas here maybe have some ordinals as well. Um, but we’re gonna get into it. Before we get into it though, like how you guys been? It’s been a while since we recorded. Like what’s going on in our lives? Terrible. Let’s talk about it. Terrible. You look great. If you were terrible, you I’m tired. I’m about to take a month off. We’re going to be an adult. Yeah. About to take a full month off. I mean, just not this kind of busy. Tired. We got back from our all hands. So like we all we I I we did it all hands in Croatia for the Institute of Free Technology. It was great. Got everything done we wanted to get done. But I’m like responsible for the agenda of such a thing. A lot of work. Plus my normal job is a lot of work. And then because we did so well, I’d say at the all heads, there’s a lot of work to follow up on to continue the momentum that we gained during that event. So I’m busy. I’m tired. Need a break. That’s it. stuff about it. I want to say that uh I have more of a reason to be tired cuz I had to stay an additional almost a week and a half longer. You didn’t plan the whole thing. So, I was there for 12 days. You’re right. But we had to organize the codeex offsite stuff. So, imagine a smaller scale and I have to be there longer and my body was eaten alive by mosquitoes. That sucks. We didn’t have air conditioning in the villa. Uh where were you? Were you in like the hood? Croatia. There’s actually a really nice villa. Just didn’t have air conditioning. Well, things were not working. A lot of the world doesn’t have air conditioning. Yeah. I would not like to live there. They do haveord. Yeah. Um I wish I could join you guys just tired off, but it’s been relatively good. How about you, Mod? How you been? We all know. I was I was going to say I was going to say like I was just on the phone with my best friend and I was like my life is great. You know, it’s never been better. I was I just got off and he you know what he said? He said me too, bro. Me too. Good for y’all. Life is good. So like I have no complaints. Uh yeah, I’m chilling right now. Everything has been dandy. Just finished my junior year of college. I mean I just been working on the weekend. Oh, the days. Working on the uh working on the weekends like usual. Off up in the deep end like usual. Um, no, I was just working. That’s what I’ve been wedding planning. You know, got to get the numps going here. Yep. Trying to make a baby. That’s right. Out there. Public service announcement. You got to take the condom off, right? And then you get to pile driving. Uh, don’t wait as long as I did. Then you got to take 17 multivitamins a day and pray. Wait, wait. Do you like do you like eat certain fruits and vegetables to make like like Bro, I’ve been eating so much fruit and veggies, bro. It’s out of control. I heard if you eat pineapple t if you eat pineapple, it tastes good. Uh, pineapple does taste good. That’s not what I Wait, I meant Is that not what you meant? No. Oh, well, put two together. So, let’s talk about Bitcoin ordinals, right? So, what is an ordinal? Who wants to tackle that one? Uh, I will. It’s an attempt for Bitcoin to follow the NFT craze that came from the Ethereum ecosystem, which then got adapted and ran with the Salana ecosystem of NFTs. NFTs means nonfgeable tokens. Fungeible means that if I have a token and I you have tokens and we trade, it’s the exact same thing. There’s no difference between the to one one token to another token. Just like if I give you a dollar, you give me a dollar. There’s no difference. But a fun like something that’s nonf fungeible, it’s like us trading like trading cards, right? Or if I give you a trading card, you give me a trading card. We’ve swapped something different. They’re both trading cards, but the value of each one of these things is going to be different based on whatever the unique characteristics of that trading card are. So that’s the idea of fungeability. Fungeibility is like a currency where there’s no individuality between each unit. Nonfgeibility is like trading cards where like there’s unique properties of each one. It’s like the trading card I show you, but Pokemon, what is that? I can tell. Anyway, so like Ethereum started this when it with CryptoKitties actually a long time ago and then it blew up as a craze. Cryptokitties blew up as a craze and and there’s a lot of value to the idea of having unique digital assets of a collection generally speaking right and at the beginning Bitcoin was like that’s stupid this is dumb I can’t believe Ethereum is doing this it’s so stupid and they kept with this idea of like Bitcoin is Bitcoin is a storage of value and then because it’s a permissionless technology and they had an adoption craze and people came into the ecosystem and they’re like, “Well, I’m just going to do bit I’m just going to do NFTs on Bitcoin. There’s nothing anybody can do about it.” And they did. And so UTXOs, which is a one of the unique ways of how Bitcoin’s moved around on the ledger of Bitcoin blockchain, uh you can track those things and then you can basically tag them with specific characteristics and those become NFTs. So you just need to know how to read that. That’s it. You’re done. You’ve effectively made NFTs on Bitcoin. And then everybody got super buttth hurt. The guy who made them was like, “Go yourself. I did it. You can’t stop me.” And now we have NFTs on Bitcoin. They’re called ordinals. And there’s a protocol for what that is. And I love that story because like it’s it’s this idea of permissionless innovation that you don’t get to tell people what they can and can’t do on a permissionless technology. They just do it. And if people like it, they use it. And people liked it. And people keep using it. And it’s grown into a new standard protocol on how you do unique assets on Bitcoin. Do you guys ever think about the not like the subtle and soft like nonfgeibility of fungeible tokens? Please explain. Like think about it. If me, you, and Jesse were all bidding on a house right now, we’re not going to get the exact same price, right? But whoever would win the bid, right, would say the person who wanted who offered the least won the bid, then their dollars are are worth more because they got the house for less dollars than the person who bid and they lost or whatever. You know what I’m saying? Like there’s a soft nonfgeibility to dollars as well. Like when it comes to a more expensive ticket item, the dollar the metric I know what you’re saying. Technically, I’m saying I’m Yes. Absolutely. Yes. You’re not wrong technically. But like if if if it’s a half a million dollar house and Jesse comes in and low bids it for 450k and he wins, right? Then and like you know that’s crazy cuz somebody would have had to pay half a million dollars, you know, but he only But it’s still Well, no. It’s the house fun. It’s the house. The house is the nonable thing. Yes. Okay. But you’re you’re measuring it in a funible thing. Let’s just rewind all that back out. Yeah. Yeah. But that’s that’s an interesting play, right? Like an interesting play between like the value of something that is nonfgeible. It trading cards, collectibles in general don’t have intrinsic value. It’s about the community that cares about that collectible that gives it value. and whatever I don’t know story they’re telling about the scarcity of individual things or like the like the preference of individual characteristics that are valuable right when you look at the NFT like the 10ks that was the whole uh like theme in the NFT craze of of of uh Ethereum is like I’m I’m making a set of 10K 10,000 NFTts they have certain types of characteristics and in some cases you get an ultra rare combination some tier list of like what what’s good and what’s not it’s an artificial thing. Yeah, it’s more scarce. People just the idea of collecting things that are more scarce seems to be some natural human thing. Like there are just people out there that don’t give a about what it is as long as it’s scarce and they want it. I’m excited about it because Go ahead. I was just going to say I just think of Counterstrike skins whenever we talk. It’s the same thing. It’s the same thing. It’s like 101. The same thing. That’s why Jesse got here. I think like Yeah, it’s the exact same thing. Wait, what were we going to say, Cory? That’s why you came. You like you you’re steeped in that world and then like that’s I think where you made the original connection of like having been around trading skins and stuff in the gaming industry and they started looking like what crypto is. You’re like, “Oh, crypto is kind of neat.” It’s the same thing. It’s just now you have a currency that can float between things versus being restricted in a specific game economy because you can’t actually you can’t actually export the asset. So you have to figure out how to build rules on top of governance structures that are predefined by the developers in code that is gatekept. And so versus having to do all of that extra work, which again it parallels the podcast you and Jared did yesterday um with the folks from consensus which was the fact that the same way that Jared had that experience with Lambda textbased game and basically you build all sorts of arbitration systems, government governance structures, ways of penalizing participants for you know actions that may or may not may have made sense in the context of the rules of the game. Like it’s the same thing that you had to build in terms of connecting uh game economies to actual real world economies. You had to have essentially like there’s a black market for everything for game economies. There’s a black market for I found out from a mod for unreleased rap music. Like I didn’t know that. Yeah. But like those black markets come to existence because the standard service providing isn’t sufficient, right? You you wouldn’t you like like Spotify we stop pirating software because Spotify exists. Yeah. If you can fulfill the need appropriately to like the value of the thing you’re consuming then people stop pirating or doing the black market. You do black markets because you can’t trade skins. This like the Diablo II auction house is a really good example of that. The the fundamental problem that is is not a technology solvable problem. It’s a human social buying problem, which is can you get all of these different uh owners of all of the intellectual property of all these different games, Activision, um what’s what’s another big name? Basically, like if you can combine Korean, Americanoft, Chinese markets. Yeah, exactly. Like Tencent, like they own everything. They own Riot games. They own like if you can combine IP, the technology is like the easy part in terms of having some sort of blockchain, you know, L1, alt L1 that’s just like a in a data center, but at least it could unify all of the game assets, but then you’d have to create different model representations of that game asset for the different like ways in which that asset could render in that specific game, which is a lot of overhead. But I know that there is an extremely large appetite for that if it ever could be socially brought to fruition, I guess, because the technology is there. Yeah. There’s a there’s the other side of that which is like the complexity of mixing economies. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. But we we brought that up yesterday in our in in the codeex x space we did talking about um mechanism design and game game theory. So like I I I made this analogy there and I I really like it. I’ll make it again here of um thinking about token economics or like how a token works within a given ecosystem or like a like a a a money system in a video game is like an ecology, right? You have, you know, population control certain food chains within a given niche and you have a sustainable e ecology within within that niche. But if you introduce some additional factor that doesn’t belong there, like for instance like lion fish and reefs or like the toads in Australia or whatever it is, then it it’s so easy to just destroy destroy the ecosystem fragile equilibrium. And that’s what we’re talking about. So, when you talk about mixing uh tokens or economies between one game and another, the more generalized you do, the more likely you’re going to destroy that equilibrium and just ruin the ability for that game to be sustainable. I would I would I would caveat that perspective with one that I just realized, which is think about think about all of the things that are black market economies, where do they exit to? They exit to the deepest liquidity. it ends up being some some sort of um medium of exchange that’s akin to something familiar that is stable and it always ends up being like a a stable coin or some proxy of the US dollar right if if you like more often than not sometimes it’s not possible so in like the case of like certain I know illegal gambling websites that build casinos on top of video game assets they have to exit to like Litecoin they don’t actually want to uh exit to stable coins because of of the monitoring. Um, and then and then you also have like the problem like I think the problem that you’re explaining of yes, ecosystems specific to a protocol uh are are potentially carefully crafted by the developers to to work a certain way. If you think about game balance, that’s also like it ties in like sometimes like the easiest the cleanest way to have microtransactions without affecting gameplay is for it to be purely cosmetic, right? That’s like the easiest way. Now, if you think about like the dynamics of like me extracting in-game resources, like for instance, I’ll give you the specific example of what I did when I was 11, there was a a scar, there was a a scripting language called SCAR, and it’s basically used for macro automation for basically doing color picking tools. So, what I could do is I could set up basically many uh scars script instances of like Runescape running in many different windows. And this it’s essentially like a a a uh color picking tool plus macro automation. So basically I could have you know tens hundreds of like bots uh go out to mine you know some ore or some do some mundane task where they’re actually farming in-game resources and then all I would have to do is uh sell those in-game resources. When you do bulk sale, you actually get a like you have to offer discounts and that offer discount, you know, there there are rates, there are cheaper rates because people know that you’re botting and they know that it’s basically hot, right? So, you have to think about the logistics of in-game developers monitoring your abnormally large amount of in-game resources being transferred. So, you have to think about the logistics of laundering that effectively. and then you sell that for in-game currency, but you can’t put that on one account because then it looks suspect because now you have one account that has a fuckload of money. So, you have to think about how you spread the money. And so, like I’m like 11 years old, like 12, 13, like I did this for years. And you have to think about how you how you effectively take an in-game resource which is artificial uh artificially figure out a way to extract it convert it to an in-game uh fungeable resource like the in-game currency Runescape gold pieces and then now you have to take that asset and then you have to combine with uh structures that are built outside of the game, right? Those are those are human-based trust structures to actually get real world value like a real dollar converted to that in-game currency amount. And you can also take this and you can take that value and then com you can do you can do swaps between games. So sometimes the same industrialized farming um botting groups that exist within one game are actually cross genre. Same thing with like uh uh groups that develop aimbots for FPS’s. They’re also cross genre like Overwatch, Counter-Strike. It’s like the same group. And so if you can get in with some of these groups, you kind of like see there’s a whole underbelly of economy happening outside of the one that the developers intended to make when they created the game in the first place. Welcome to the Bitcoin podcast where we explain in gruesome detail moneyaundering. Yeah, I I just want to the point of like combining game economies, don’t you also have to consider like their market caps? Like Oh yeah, Counter Strike’s market cap is like 5 billion. if you put it next to TF2, you could buy the whole TF2 market. So, going back to what Corey said, you actually don’t disrupt the ecology of the ecosystem as long as it has no effect on the actual mechanics of the game. And the way the the the medium which you’re exiting the liquidity across different ecosystems is deep enough to be able to hold that. Yeah. But we’re talking about we’re talking about blockchains talking about we’re talking about tokens. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, so it’s the same thing. It’s not aesthetic. It’s not a thing. But if you buy So what I’m saying is like USDC and USDT have to continually growing to be bigger and deeper liquidity markets and if you look at like USDT the way that they’re like what the seventh largest acquirer of US debt right now like they’re making those plays strategically like that’s why we know crypto as a whole is is is essentially creating little mini like you know third world economies within a larger developing world econ economy of the US dollar being the kind of medium exchange internationally accepted everywhere. But yeah, that got deep. Yeah. So, ordinals. Uh yeah, that two year old thing. Yeah. Um Yeah. So, that’s how deep ordinals can get. We were going to take a deep dive into it, but we just did. So, you know, you’re welcome for that. Yeah. That’s the thing, right? It’s like um going to make you can make a collection of anything like ordinals can play the role of you know trading cards that no one cares about trading cards that people care about to the to like tracking the providence of supply chain right if you’re talking about non-f fungeible tokens the generality in which they’re useful they they cover a tremendous swath of usefulness especially when they’re blockchain where you actually can audit things appropriately just Bitcoin figured out how to do it. It’s kind of okay. I stay torn with the whole like, you know, hey, I have this Bitcoin, but it also, you know, has a contract to Alexis inside of it. You know, like the not the actual nonfgeibility of it is what I I’m torn on because just in my brain, it doesn’t make a ton of sense. like I have my, you know, I have my um, you know, I have a car that I own and I have a little title in there, but that title is also like I can’t take that title and go buy some groceries with it, right? Like it’s just a title. And so that’s that’s why I think it it just kind of boggles people’s heads because I’m thinking like, okay, so is there enough Bitcoin if ordinals become super duper popular? Like, can people still use Bitcoin as money or I mean, you know, You’re inscribing SATs. You’re you’re inscribing it on the SAT level. So there’s a fuckload of SATs, right? And also like Yeah, there there’s a fuckload of SATs, but there’s also a fuckload of global commerce. And if Bitcoin wants to be this reserve currency as if you know the one that’s want it’s trying to be that we’re going to need those SAS not going to happen. Nobody’s going to build NFTs like this is not going to work for enterprise um uh supply chain monitoring if that’s what you’re trying to extrapolate and reason about. both. It’s not going to do both. Bitcoin isn’t suitable for that type of thing. Yeah. And and even if you look at like the ordinals, it’s just an over like it’s a peer-to-p peer overlay. If you look at like the way that people are valuing uh like ordinal inscriptions, like you you you look at the value of the of the of the significance of the set. So like to do call back to what you know um Ahmad was talking about like the thing that matters in Counterstrike amongst like the the things that are valued most are the aesthetic and also the float. The float being how close is it to the cleanest or like the the most the best condition of the item that can ever exist and is it unique, right? That same dynamic exists in ordinal inscriptions. There’s the concept of like sat rarity, right? So the closer you are to basically being to Genesis and never touched, there are different characteristics that which they can be graded. So same thing like diamonds get grades, Counter-Strike skins have grades. It’s all the same at the end of the day. Did you have a question? My favorite I’m about to throw my favorite phrase. Everything is until it isn’t. Like what? Some people just making up now like oh these Satoshi’s are worth more. No, but for real like this is a real this is a real difference in market, right? Like Yeah. Yeah. That’s just a real this is actually just if you look at so this is an interesting hearkening back to the fungeability as an asset right so bitcoin is a fungeible thing right if I give you bitcoin and I have bitcoin it’s the same bitcoin if we change if we exchange bitcoins ostensibly it’s the same thing because it’s fungeible but it’s not there are classes of bitcoins because you have perfect auditability of the US utxo chain that value different stats or UTXOs differently. So like if I just mint like if I just mint a new Bitcoin, it’s more valuable to people because it’s brand new. It hasn’t been minted. If you find an UTXO from the Genesis block or like like that hasn’t been spent like something anything that’s closer to the Genesis block, oh those are rare. People are going to pay a lot of money for those things, right? So like there is there is a still a differentiation of the fungeability within a given bet because we have the auditability. It’s not perfectly funible because we can still track different different things, right? It’s like some some UTXOs are unspendable because they’re attached to elicit finance. You can’t you can’t you can’t trade them because you can’t turn them into cash by going through traditional sources like Coinbase. Coinbase would be like, “We don’t accept those because they’re attached to elicit finance or the black market or something.” So, like, it’s not a perfectly fungeible thing, but it’s a funible asset, right? It’s an interesting thing to think about. I mean, it’s like like wine uh like wine in the same year is conceivably fungeible until people make artificial differences like maybe one was signed by the the vineyard person. Like then you have like stupid like or or like for instance let’s take um um there all all I’m getting at is there can be fungeibility or sorry there there can be nonfgeibility within things that have pre-existed to be funible for instance like it’s it’s it existed like uh like our common friend that we all kind of know Nate he has shoes that are mass-produced signed by Stan Lee It was like the last run of like some comic book thing. So like that inherently makes that shoe nonf fungeible because now it has Stanley signature on. I would prefer that the dollars that I use are not stripper dollars. I don’t know where they’ve been. Huh? Sure. I mean that’s and then and then maybe maybe I mean you know there’s old money, right? Like people collect coins. People like, you know, 2 at face value to some people who are collectors. I just imagine like I just now I’m thinking about I’ll think about every dollar bill I touch again and like this. Dollars are gross. Crystal scooch dollar is gross. Sweat. You don’t want to know that. You don’t want to look at what’s what’s on your dollars. They’re gross. Uh, it’s cloth. They’re cloth. Literally, they absorb Black to a dollar, Cory. Is that what you’re trying to tell us? Don’t use cash. It’s gross. Unless you’re trying Unless you’re trying to do drugs, something like that, cuz it’s still the best. There’s stripper gu in my 20 bill. This This has stripper gu. Um, sounds like a dog. Um, I don’t know. I I probably won’t. I have Bitcoin ornamentals through like, you know, osmosis pretty much, but I probably won’t be buying any ordinals just because I’m I’ve never been a big collector guy. I I like I don’t know. Just never just forget about it. No, I mean, I have stuff that I’ve collected and I keep it, but like I just never like I’ve never I’ve never like been to the point where like, you know what, I’m going to go to a convention and like see other people like me like I never a liar because I’ve never been to a collector’s convent shitload of chickens of what chickens chicken the NFT on you have these things you have that’s true you have you have fed these things you have taken you have tended to these things and you have gone to that discord and listened to the community on what that community is doing. You have done this value went out, dude. That community told me to go myself. That was that was a humbling moment. But you did it. And I was like, friend, I had a friend in real life and she didn’t know what she was doing. Well, it was my friend, his his wife was willing to chicken and she got scammed hard. And I was like, you put your private key in a thing. And she was like, yeah, it’s I just follow the instructions. And I was like, you’re one of those. you’re one of those. So anyways, I was like, “Yeah, it’s gone.” And she’s like, “There’s nothing you can do.” And I was like, “Yeah, there’s nothing I could do.” And so she’s like, “Please.” And she was like, “Go join the Discord and tell them who you are.” And I was like, “I’m not like I don’t have clout like that.” That there’s like 30 million podcasts now. Like, so I go in there and I’m like, “Hey, you know, my buddy lost some chicken and you know, and um, you know, they’re like, “So, they’re like, “So, we don’t give a damn.” Yeah, exactly. And uh yeah, they’re like she they’re like, “She messed up. She clicked on something, she gave them their private key. She messed up.” And then uh so I was like, “Hey, you know, I am a person. In fact, I’m the from the Bitcoin podcast.” And they’re and they were like, “We don’t give a fuck.” Like we I was like, “Oh shit.” Okay. Well, how old was she? Uh probably like 41, 42. And like he was out there selling technically illiterate. Yeah. So not only were you collecting chickens, you were busizing these NFTts. So let’s not pretend this thing. I was not I was not doing you totally got other people who are not. This was inviting people to Chili’s in a in a rented out room and he had a whiteboard talking about if you buy two chickens and they buy two chickens and they buy two chickens then I’m going to get a Lambo. Sounds like sounds like a a pyramid. That was the joke. It got so intense that one person actually started buying real chickens and named them after the names that he gave his chickens. Digital chicken. Yeah. How much How much were the chickens NFTTS worth? How much were the NFTs worth? Like 37. Post this link in the private channel or chat here in in StreamYard and you can take that information in post-prouction and put it up at the end of this for all of the poor people who have been buying NFTs, including myself. This is the life cycle of most of them. They all die. They all go to zero and you end up bag holding. This is it. There’s so many more. Oh, yeah. This list is not exhaustive. I’m glad the very end of it you said this list is not exhaustive because it is. There’s thousands upon thousands of these things. There’s a graveyard. If the community isn’t there, the value won’t be there. Period. I see doodles on there. Yeah, I got those, too. Didn’t they didn’t like the owners like fully rugged? 100%. 100% rug. Hard rug. Yeah. How many How many of those did you get, Corey? You want to talk to the people? Look, I’ll send I’ll send you my wallet address later. You can look at the graveyard of I’m going to airdrop you like one of those NFTs with the virus. I do got some tunes that held some value. That’s pretty interesting. I didn’t realize that would things that I bought because I liked it ended up holding value. The things that I thought would have value don’t have value. Okay. Always do things because Yeah. Don’t The things that you should do are because you enjoy it, not because you think that there’s going to be some sort of lucrative pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Because more often than not, no more often than not, you’re right. No, you’re wrong. It would have been very lucrative had high decided to hodddle plus and not hold on for dear life and then lose all the value because the culture went away. If I would have if I would have stuck to my guns and sold when I should have, I would have made a lot of money. But you could have made like seven to 8,000 Avalanche and I didn’t pull the trigger. I don’t know why. But anyways, uh let’s let’s let’s wrap it all up, bro. So, so we didn’t really dive deep into ordinals. There’s some things we missed like the the guy who created it and uh it’s possible because of tap routt. Um you can look at the tap routt if you like. We’re not going to dive into that. Um but it it did open up a new door for for for Bitcoin. So, uh it’s clear that, you know, that technology is shaking things up. Um people still love them. I think they’re popping up every day. New Ordinals, right? So, um, and I think there’s even some layer 2, Bitcoin layer 2 solutions. This is a layer. Bitcoin has layers has layer twos now. Um, but, um, there’s some solutions there that could make it faster and more versatile. So, uh, if you’re feeling inspired to jump into that scene, there’s marketplaces like Magic Eden, um, that you can kind of like go buy a bunch of stuff and, um, not totally waste your money. not um, investment advice. So, um, yeah, thank you for tuning in today. I mean, is there anything we need to cover with ordinals? We should make one. They’re around. Whatever. It’s expensive, though, isn’t it? Expensive. Depends on how expensive Bitcoin is. Jesse got us. Don’t worry. It’s It’s the cost of a transfer. Oh, okay. I I thought I thought it was like for some reason a lot more expensive than that. It can be. Anyways, um, yeah. Shout out to Zoe Salana. We love you, boo. Keep doing your thing. We see you coming up, you know, in Avengers Doomsday. You’re probably going to be playing the green alien this time, not the blue one. Any color you are. I’m saying I’m into it. But all right, guys. We can play the outro.