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Episode Description
The Bitcoin Podcast returns for its second season, exploring the latest in cryptocurrency news and discussions on Bitcoin’s evolving landscape. Once focused heavily on initial adoption, the hosts now consider what true adoption means in the context of recent technological advancements like L2s and regulatory developments impacting the market significantly. They dive deep into the nuances of Bitcoin’s network growth and the Lightning Network’s capacity and implications, while also humorously reflecting on past podcast episodes and entertaining conjectures about the future of Bitcoin. The podcast invites listeners to join them once again, aiming to reclaim their place as a leading voice in the crypto community by tackling contemporary issues with humor and informed conjecture.
00:00:00 What’s the Buzz about the Bitcoin Podcast’s Comeback?
00:00:39 Why Is Season Two of Our Bitcoin Podcast Different?
00:01:23 Can You Guess the Real Length of Our Podcast Season?
00:02:01 What Major Developments Have Shaped Bitcoin in 2025?
00:02:28 How Has the Lightning Network Fared Over the Years?
00:03:22 What Milestones Is Bitcoin Achieving with AI Integration?
00:03:49 Why Haven’t We Listened to Every Bitcoin Podcast Episode?
00:05:51 Who Really Created the Lightning Network?
00:06:19 How Did Lightning Network Evolve into a Game Changer?
00:08:03 Is the Lightning Network Living Up to Its Hype?
00:08:57 What’s behind the Decrease in Bitcoin Lightning Channels?
00:09:39 What’s Going on with Uniswap’s 24-Hour Volume?
00:11:48 Why Should You Care about Lightning Network’s Capacity?
00:12:26 How Did Bitcoin’s Integration with Ordinals Impact its Market?
00:14:01 Are Bitcoin Nodes Increasing or Decreasing?
00:15:16 Is Bitcoin’s Power Consumption Limiting Its Growth?
00:16:54 What’s the Trend in Bitcoin Vs. Ethereum Dominance?
00:18:50 How Has the Web3 Ecosystem Evolved with Bitcoin L2s?
00:21:48 Are Bitcoin Roll-ups the Future of Blockchain Scalability?
00:25:34 Is Regulation Keeping Up with Web3 Technology?
00:27:38 Are We Facing Real Blockchain Adoption or Hype?
00:30:27 Could Bitcoin Be Manipulated by Institutional Players?
00:34:19 Is There a Conspiracy behind Bitcoin’s Market Movement?
00:36:55 What’s Next for Season Two of Our Podcast?
Transcript
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We are back. Hey everybody, welcome to the Bitcoin podcast. I’m the host that talks first usually. Season two. I’m season two. Season two, host two. It’s a Bitcoin podcast. the only one that’s making your money in you. So hold on to the coin. You know what? We are back. What you realize? Got better cameras. Like I had really long hair and I had like stubble on my face. Your hair was so long? Yeah, dude. Yeah, there was a fuckability factor that was a fuckability factor was off the breaker skills, bro. You had my blood sister calling me asking about you and your life and I was like, I’m not going to hook you up with my friend Jesse. And she was like, oh. Anyways, hey everybody. Welcome to the Bitcoin podcast. I’m the host that talks first usually. Season two. I’m season two. Season two, host two. I’m Corey like that. Whoa. Do that again. Autofocus. Autofocus. We got a new camera. You got to get a good camera. I got a good camera, y’all. Oh, I want a good camera. Anyways, hey. Yeah. Season 2, episode one, the first season was 400 episodes long. And let me tell you something. If you’re into binge listening or watching, you’re going to want to hit play and just let it ride. Uh, there might only be two people in existence uh that have listened to all of our episodes. Joe and I would say maybe Wayne. Yeah. Yeah. Like that’s probably it. I haven’t even listen to all of our episodes. I made them. So, you know, we’re we’re back after a long break with there is some big crypto news. You know, we couldn’t have a good camera. We couldn’t say, “Oh, he’s got a much better situation than I do as well.” Sorry. Uh so, well, been away. There’s a lot that’s happening in Bitcoin. Gamechanging tech, uh surprising regulatory moves like we all didn’t think that could happen. Uh we’re going to like we’re going to go through some of that, you know, unpack it a little bit. There’s there’s been some reshaping, if you will, of the crypto landscape since we stopped recording uh the Bitcoin podcast in 2023. In season 1, we left you with a cliffhanger inception. And there’s been some advancements. There’s been some things that have happened, right? So, we’re just going to kind of go into that, you know, let’s let’s see if we could just like, you know, sum it up real quick so the audience knows what they’re getting into. So, um the Lightning Network is a thing. It was a thing before we stopped recording. It’s still a thing. And that’s about as much as we could say about it, right? It’s it’s just the thing. Um, but we’re going to go into detail. Uh, also there is like new regulatory framework, right? Like that we can all operate on uh that has happened in the United States that that caused some huge ripples. So, we’re going to talk about that. What’s legal, what’s not legal. We’re going to talk about the countries that made illegal tinder or not. What else are we gonna talk about? I just got uh I just got some major milestones here uh using sweet sweet AI and its search capabilities because the script writing that we did uh sucks. So we’re going to do a little better. That’s not true. It’s just it doesn’t suck. It licks not yeah price movement. We’ll talk about price a little bit in terms of where it was and where it is today. Some major milestones. Fourth Bitcoin happening happened in April of the to last year. Institutional adoption through Bitcoin ETFs, mining industry developments, regulatory environment, that’s a big one, I’d say, especially since our new administration. Long-term investor behavior and supply dynamics. That is not me. That’s a full list of things. It’s a foolist of things. You guys didn’t introduce yourselves. I don’t think I said I’m the host. Host number two. I did this. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Host number three. And then but do it do it in the other camera. Do it like you did. Host number three. Switches. Okay. Okay, host number three. Got to click on the drop down. This was so not three. Why do three like that? You’re not German. What is the Ninja Turtle three? Why does just Ninja Turtle 3? What is that? What do you mean? How do you guys How do you guys put up a three? I go like this. What? I don’t do that. Yeah, like basically you telling me we all do different threes. Look what happens when I do that. Look at my jank fingers from jiu-jitsu. Broken fingers. Like this is this is my three looking like the aliens from Independence Day. All right. Uh welcome to Earth. No. Uh it’s a great movie by the way. Independence Day. If you haven’t seen it, came out 1995 starring Will Smith. Spoiler alert, the aliens lose. So let’s talk about The Lightning Network. I remember at one time The Lightning Network will get my pants rather tight. I was like, “Oh, this is obviously the payments. We’ve got it figured out now, right? If we want to be a store of value uh and a medium of exchange and what’s the last one? store value, medium exchange, unit of account of account, right? This helps with the medium of exchange part. We can now we can have we can have payments beyond Bitcoin because, you know, for a while there the transaction fees were out of this world. People like, I’m not paid 500 million is how much is a is a is a day volume in unis swap, right? It’s a good question. Too late. Real time data generating. I don’t see data here. Where’s data here? Do a swap real quick. Make some money. Where’s your analytics? There is no data here. Go back to the Google. Oh, wait. Hold. You’re in the middle of there. It shows some stuff. You go now. You go now. All time volume. Okay, never mind. No, there is right there. Defy lava. Here we go. Swap volume 500 million in capacity of the Bitcoin. These are direct correlated like these aren’t direct apples to apples comparisons, but you can get a pretty good idea here. Like it’s apples to pairs. It’s close. See what does this have 24hour volume say on DeFi Lama. 24-hour volume on DeFi Lama says unis swap 2.05 billion. So, two bills on their on their website has one. This is just unis swap, right? This isn’t just all of the other exchanges into account. Do you see that there’s a mismatch though of 800 million? What do you mean between what unis swap is reporting self-reporting 1.2 2 billion 24-hour volume. Defy Llama is reporting two little over two billion. It’s a mis one goes midnight to midnight to swap versus uh one version of UDIS swap. Click on V4. 150 million 1.09 billion 6 million 232,000. So one and two are dead. Yeah. V3 is usually the main one I’d say. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, like that gives you Bitcoin Lightning Network, which is just a payments network on top of Bitcoin and like the main decentralized exchange of Ethereum in the Ethereum L2 ecosystem. I’d say you ever use uh how do you guys feel about chin rat tails? Like lower lip rat tails. Gross. So get rid of that. Mhm. All right. Get rid of that. So Lightning Network happened. Script wanted us to talk about it, but I don’t think it happened that much. Not that big of a deal. Like relative to the other things that happened since 2023. Lightning is kind of a understory in my opinion. They did try to make Yeah. The bigger story is L2s, right? Like easily kind of I think that’s more of a of a of a joke narrative like all throughout history like up till the 400th episode of season one of Bitcoin. You talked about kind of Bitcoin since to build layer twos and to have this settlement layer network that only does storage of value stuff and then finally and like how everyone on Ethereum and it’s general roadmap of building things on top layers there and then they go and do it and they try to replicate it on a worse scripting system of Bitcoin and so like it’s this full scale flip and I think the ordinal uh project which happened since we since we left or like got big since we left trying to recreate NFTTS or basically NFTs on Bitcoin brought a bunch of people into the Bitcoin ecosystem that then started changing that original kind of idealist mentality of early Bitcoin like we can build a bunch of stuff on here. It is permissionless. You can’t stop us. And so they use the kind of same ideals that the Bitcoin ecosystem stood by which is like permissionless innovation and threw it in their face to do things that the original Bitcoin ecosystem didn’t want to do. And then that kind of brought a bunch of new people in, lot of fresh blood, and they started trying to figure out new ways to build on top of Bitcoin. I think they added like 6,000 new Bitcoin uh core nodes uh at peak when when that was going on. Let’s look at that. Bitcoin visuals dashboards it was like 10 to 20 or 10 to 12,000 total Bitcoin nodes during that peak. Bitcoin node years. Bitcoin node growth has gone up. I know that for a fact. A lot of people are feeling the Bitcoin nodes dashboards various stats. So JP, okay, nothing here on various stats. That’s cool. Lightning nodes bandwidth. Oh, January 2023. So just look at Bitcoin nodes. So bit nodes.io. So there’s 21,926 nodes right now on Bitcoin. See if they have historical chart. Bit nodes.io. Would you guys say that is a lot or a little bit amount of nodes? That’s a lot. So that’s a that’s a lot. So if you look at January 2023, so we were at total 12,863 nodes and to date we are at 21,583. So that’s a huge gain. That’s a really big gain. Look at that drop. 20% in one year. Holy cow. That was China. Here’s eight years. Damn. That huge drop. What was that? Well, look at that. What is that about in 2024? What happened in July 20? July 16, 2024. I don’t know. Well, look at the I think what’s a blip. What’s really interesting here, if you look at the nodes, like the trend here is the number of if you look at the number is the number of onion nodes. So, you have you have a lot of nodes running behind an anonymization network, which I think is really cool. That’s awesome. It looks like Bitcoin is healthfully growing at a very slow rate. If we could get that power consumption thing solved, man, Bitcoin would be still pretty dope. I think that’s never going to happen. It can’t happen. That’s the whole point. Like, what about nuclear energy? I said that wrong. Nuclear. That’s like I think you’ve missed the point of how Bitcoin mining works and the what? No. Capitalist nature of it, right? In the event there’s more energy or in the event anything becomes more efficient means we throw more energy at it for more hashing power. The goal the name of the game for mining is contributing as much power or hashing power into the network as you possibly can way. So like in the event we find any efficiency gains we’re not going to just remove power from the network. You’re just going to put more into it at a more efficient rate thus contributing more to the network and hopefully earning more money. Like the name of the game is increasing margin point. He was just saying how he wishes Bitcoin had, you know, proof of stake like power savings is is all he was saying. Yeah. But obviously it’s like a must construct more pylons when it comes to Bitcoin, right? It’s always I can hear though is that like proof of work and specifically Bitcoin’s proof of work that in my sleep sometimes is a unique way of creating digital scarcity from energy and there can only be one of them because if you started a new similar proof of work hashing style as 256 as Bitcoin does, Bitcoin would just kill it immediately. There’s always going to be one type of proofof work network for every type of ashing algorithm there is for proof of work whether be storage capacity GPU based things or AS6 that are they’re Bitcoin specific and so and the community around this type is really really really really stable which means Bitcoin is really really really really stable and it’s so big that you can’t take it over. So like that asset the the amount of effort it takes to change that asset is so much that it’s a really really stable asset in terms of like not going to go anywhere. Yeah. Let’s talk about the real thing that we need to be discussing right now is who the would wear those red makeshift Allen Iverson shoes that are price drops for Jesse’s ads right now and who who’s buying uh Leonard Da Vinci Code devices. Price drop. Nobody apparently this Latin phrase which one the Latin phrase that uh Sarah dimminimus whatever it’s it’s in the it’s in the bill right that tariffs bill that was passed it was like something along the lines of any like anything below was like a $800 or I can’t remember the details but anyway everybody’s laughing because uh Timu is going to get killed because now everything gets basically a tariff slapped on it no matter I didn’t think about that how small the price Yeah, here’s a look at Bitcoin dominance over time since 2023. So that’s always this graph blows my mind, dude. So if we look at like early right when Ethereum got started, we had this slow gain until we almost had a crossing of of Bitcoin dominance where like Ethereum a a flipping flipping and that was the kind of term that people used and then it changed again and it came up a little bit and now you’ve seen a like since 2022 you’ve seen a steady separation of Bitcoin and Ethereum things right and I think that’s because in the earlier Actually, maybe not so much because you have a bunch of the other stuff still playing a significant contribution to this with Ethereum, but like I have a theory as well. It has done the one thing that it has always done really well and what all of the other things do is kind ofly various and so it’s hard to dominate when you do so many things. I have a conjecture. Remember way back in the day we talked about Bitcoin with a capital B and Bitcoin with a little B and it was just understood in the early days of Bitcoin before all of your sources of public information became garbage that Bitcoin would just kind of the blob take other tech as it became popular on other chains and it would say like oh that’s cool I’m going to take that now and it would become part part of Bitcoin. That didn’t really happen obviously because if you guys were around for um the block wars Jesus of small block big block we like Bitcoin kind of went through a lot but we did see recently since we stopped recording and started now season 2 episode one you can get the box set of season 1 if you go to No I’m kidding it’ll only take you three weeks to listen to. So Bitcoin did adopt L2 like L2 and that’s been like gang busters. I think people are just trying to figure out what a Bitcoin L2 is and what it can do, right? It to me it just like you said like a joke. There’s stamps, there’s putting images, all that stuff. And that’s cute. Um, but it it did kind of reinvigorate Bitcoin, right? And I think it was the first time I’ve seen Bitcoin like actively like, hey, let’s just take some of this other tech and try to implement it here. And so that’s that’s my conjecture as it just kind of reignited Bitcoin when they were like oh let’s do Bitcoin L2s and you know maybe they’ll do something else take something else from another I think ordinal around like one of the things that I think will stick around is ordinals I think everything else is throw some of that stuff just throw up your throw up your stuff from the throw up the L2 stuff okay I was actually looking at Centria the the the new Bitcoin rollup I was actually digging into That That’s interesting. It took I don’t know if you’re using your microphone. No, he’s using a different microphone. Wait. Damn. We should have caught that a while ago. Jesse usually has this very silky voice. A very like, you know, coming to take your auntie voice, but I don’t know what’s going on. Like this one? Yeah, that’s the right one. Yeah, that’s the that’s the voice. Hold up. So, let me tell my auntie to stop texting. All right, go on, Jess. So So, Citria Oh, here I’ll I’ll share the stats. All right. So, here’s your timeline. That’s great. Uh, so we left off here. So, first blog post on ZK roll-ups on Bitcoin. We we’re talking to Robin Linus. Yeah. About remember? Yep. And then Citri utilizing BitBM. I don’t know what Alpen is, but I guess ZK rollup started right about when we ended the first season. And then I guess Citria. So, Citria is live right now on a test net. I just looked at their website. So it might be interesting content for us to actually play around with that and see what that try and get them on. What is it? We talk to them. Yeah. Yeah, that would be interesting too. Yeah. Bitcoin is Jot that down. Jot that down. Here’s the new What do you mean? J put down. No, I said jot that down. I was I was talking to our team. I was talking to our team. Yes, I I see our young. Okay. Um, so this is different than what I remember seeing. So the Bitcoin Bitcoin didn’t have an ecosystem. It was just Bitcoin and then you have like a bunch of that you could use, you know, Bitcoin with dark web merchant sites. But this is nice. So I don’t know what Bob is. I don’t know what is. It’d be interesting to see the market cap and usage stats of all these things. My guess would be most of it is effectively non-existent. Yeah, probably. Cool ass logos though. Then this is the inflows of race. good funds. So we have state channel side chains and rollups and it looks like most of the money into L2s. So side chains not the rollups is where most of the money went. So roottock stacks meo state channels lightning labs had the most I guess. Yeah. So state channels is limited to payments and we’ll see a lot of like extension of functionality with state channels. side chains is a similar type of mechanism as a rollup. It’s just the way in which they basically uh prove their state like the security model of each of these things is different. I just got kind of interested in this Bitcoin EVM action. What’s that about? I don’t why would you like that seems stupid to me. I don’t know. I just want to look at it. I just want to look at it or this thing. No, it says bit. Yeah. Bitcoin EVM. What is a Bitcoin Bitcoin Ethereum virtual machine? What is that? It’s going to be Ethereum virtual machine. So it’s basically like running an Ethereum network that deres its security model from the Bitcoin network. So instead of like posting like Optimism or any of the EVM compatible roll-ups in Ethereum land, instead of them posting their state to Ethereum, they’re posting it to Bitcoin. That’s that’s the only difference. I talking about doing a hybrid Ethereum into it. That’s just it’s an EDM. It’s a virtual machine. uh you have access to the Solidity smart contracts and the Ethereum virtual machine which allows you a lot more generality and doing things compared to the Bitcoin script language. No one can see you. So whatever you’re doing is Yeah, they can they can see it. They can see it when they we edit it. But go back to these graphs. So there we go. So it looks like most of the funding in 2024 went into side chains versus the roll-ups. But those are the two largest state state channels. Everybody gave up on that it looks like. So no funding going into state channels. It’s like you don’t need state channels if you have a rollup. The interest like you can do state channel level transactions inside of a rollup. So the security model is a bit different but the complexity of the network like lightning is so much bigger than the complexity of running a rollup. So there’s kind of a number of trade-offs I’d say with how you do the like overlay network that der that then roots itself into the Bitcoin network. That’s if for those who don’t know how any of this stuff works. If you’re just listening for the first time and you’re learning about quoteunquote language news or watching what we’re talking about all these things is basically a network that exists completely outside of the Bitcoin network that basically does a bunch of transactions like you would do any other network but instead of using a consensus algorithm to say which transactions are valid it basically just leverages the Bitcoin network to do that for them. it deres at security of what transaction happened by rooting it into the Bitcoin network. And there’s a bunch of different ways you can do that. So all of these different names we’re talking about are the different ways in which you can do that. Yeah. You know what I’m I’m starting to sense though is that like something that we’ve known for years, this technology is going to dramatically and almost comically outpace regulation, right? It it it’s always going to comically outpace regulation. Sure. and you know real adoption which is a very interesting go ahead I think real adoption like real adoption I mean we can that may be something that a little bit in terms of like it’s a good good fodder for season two because like all season one our tagline was adoption is the only thing that matters we could talk about what adoption means now years later like if you want what is adoption adoption is real adoption is effectively more people use it and the market cap grows because more people are using it regardless of what they’re using it for. I don’t know if that’s a win, but like I mean that I think comes with regulation. Like people regular people who don’t need to know how it works or care how it works aren’t going to get access to this type of thing until their jurisdiction allows it. Right? People have to go after crypto if they want to use it until regulation happens and it gets it gets exposure to businesses which then expose it to users who don’t care. Yeah. I was going to say what Go ahead. I was just going to say like mass mass adoption was when we saw the Crypto.com Matt Damon ads in theaters when Avengers was playing. Was it though? I mean I think that was like a a hype cycle of marketing because we didn’t really have adoption. It was just people trying to get adoption that was fast adoption so that their business could be successful. I I would say that that’s the best that we had. Like that’s the best chance we had because now most people are pretty cynical about crypto as a whole. I don’t know, man. Like I I get hit up nonstop. I actively try to tell people that I don’t work in crypto. Like when people ask what I do, I tell them I’m like I manage software companies. And when they ask about what those software companies do, I say they rebuild internet infrastructure. Like I don’t dive into I I work with Bitcoin like technologies because it’s hard to explain. Yeah. And I don’t want people to say, but like when they do find out, the answer is always what do I buy? They want to buy it, but they still see it as an investment opportunity, not a what is the difference? It’s just like buying stocks and hopefully they get rich because they see the benefit it’s had on my life. That’s it. Whatever happened to like overtion? Is that still whatever happened? That’s uh What are you talking about? Overtock or Rootstock? Over. Who was the guy for that one? He had a Didn’t he like do like space exploration or some Uh no burn. Patrick, he did he did space something. Yeah. Um I mean I think arguably we’re already at mass adoption. Like there’s no refuting that. Now it’s just like how do we grow, right? How do we evolve? Right? We got some mass adoption. We know what that looks like. And how do we evolve? Right. So, both of you guys stop googling things and get in the conversation. I’m here. He’s a conspiracy theorist leader. We’ve gotten there. Um, you know, the president of the United States is talking about it every week, right? Like, we’ve gotten there. It’s m mass adoption is there. It doesn’t look like what we wanted. And that kind of is the impetus for us starting season two. Like, adoption is the only thing that matters. Now we realize other things matter, right? Like we’re at adoption and people are adopting it however they want to, but in reality most people are like, “Hey, what kind of crypto should I buy to get rich?” And it’s like, you missed that boat already, buddy. Like you missed that boat. That boat is out. That’s a good question for you guys. Do you think that the types of gains we saw since we got started? Like I got started in what late 2011 early early 2012 2011 for you 2012 for the type of gains we’ve seen since then are we going to see that again? I mean yeah it’s already been seen. Yeah Suie had gains like that had gains. You just need to be institutional. Okay. No no no then no no I I think Bitcoin’s on the slow grow trajectory for now until infinity. But the other things I think are going to follow the same kind of trajectory as like penny stocks or right there’s going to be a small group of people 5 to 15 people that know about a project, know about a crypto thing. They’re going to pour they’re going to get investment money, whatever it may be, right? They’re going to make boundless amounts of money, but that’s not going to go to the greater ecosystem. It’s not going to go to token price. It’s not going to go right. It’s just small groups of people are going to get wealthy off of a thing that they know about which is just kind of following like the trajectory of traditional stuff and that that whole like super because if you even look at Bitcoin right now the price being 85 is laughable given how much demand there is for it supposedly right supposedly there’s just massive demand for Bitcoin according to Coinbase and Gemini but the price is staunched why because Wall Street’s got its little grimy any fingers in it and they’ve got futures contracts and all kinds of things to guarantee that small pockets of people will get enormous with profit in USD, but that value is going to slowly trickle in into Bitcoin. You want to know my my my conspiracy theory here? We had Why am I a conspiracy theorist? I’m not a conspiracy theory. I’m just saying I have a I have a conspiracy theory in terms of like price like price movement. Um so over the course of the Trump administration we’ve seen a severe loosening of the regulation of crypto among a lot of other regulation in business and others. So a lot like a severe loosening of of these things and an an adoption of an investment strategy in cryptocurrency namely Bitcoin and a few others that in my opinion don’t really matter. I think and and over the course of the last few years, we’ve seen a lot of traditional finance investments like you see the Bitcoin ETF and over the course of the Bitcoin ETF, you’ve seen a lot of Bitcoin entering the balance sheets of large scale companies and fortune 500 companies. So, you’re seeing institutional players come in and when you compare the market cap of Bitcoin to traditional finance market cap, it’s staggeringly different. And so I think that the traditional finance is suppressing the price of Bitcoin and other bush cryptocurrencies for the benefit of themselves such that when they get to the point in which they have the percentage portfolio that they like, they relinquish that artificial market manipulation, inflate the price and sell it for profit. Let’s just look at say like the the the United States Bitcoin reserve or whatever the cryptocurrency reserve is called and the percentage allocation of Bitcoin there. Uh and the purported purpose of having such a thing is to fix the deficit in the United States. If this strategy is correct and that they’re artificially lowering the market cap or the price only to increase it later when they enter in at a low price, increase it with the amount of increase it after they’ve invested at the low price. That’s a win. It’s an automatic win. Narrative win of like look at what we did. Look how smart we are with our investment strategy. Not because it’s a smart investment strategy. It’s because we manipulated the entire market. But like not going to say that. There’s no reason to believe that’s not true in my opinion. Yeah. Nice. I mean, that’s a good I don’t think it’s conspiracy. I will not call it conspiracy because just of the connotations of conspiracy evidence. I’m just saying like that is a conjecture. All right. I’m talking I’m talking that is a conjecture from a wise and educated and learned individual. That is not a conspiracy. That is a conjecture. Yes. Yes. Jesse, do you also have a conjecture about adoption? Is that the right word? Conjecture. Yeah, it’s like theory but not theory because theory is a heavy word. I don’t want to use theories. Too many people throw that around. Formed on the basis of incomplete information. Sure. Okay, that works. Yeah, boy. Those GRE words. Jesse, what’s your conjecture? Excuse me. I I thought that was that was that was I mean that’s what I think as well. Like I think that if you were to believe in a conspiracy/conjecture, it would be that they’re manipulating everything to crash right now because they’re trying to refinance the 34 trillion debt that if you look at I guess the carryover, it’s going to be substantial. We’ll never be able to pay it off. So yeah. Yeah, they’re caving it to rebalance. They’re going to rebalance the balance sheet, baby. Yeah. I I still like I still think that maybe intelligent intelligence agencies are kind of involved with Bitcoin from the beginning and I think that might have a lot. I can I can tell you like my my initial foray to Bitcoin was giving Bitcoin educational courses to people with with clearances. I didn’t have a clearance. There were at the at the time the initial start of elicit finance contracts trying to understand the Bitcoin network and how elicit finance flows went through that network but they didn’t understand Bitcoin like even back then when I got started into like I guess professional cryptocurrency that was a severe concern of federal agencies. I can only imagine it’s grown since then. I I still like again everything’s kind of like compartmentalized to to a degree that maybe the people you taught were like the normies, you know. Oh, it was a specialized contract. Very specialized contract on listed finance. It was like the only one that existed. Okay. Now there’s probably way more than one. Well, thank you guys. We I hate to be like such a staunch segue. Welcome back. I mean, I think this is Welcome back. You know, uh you know, we’re going to enjoy doing the Bitcoin podcast again. I know you guys thought it was over. Well, guess what? It’s not, right? We’re here to take the crown back. I don’t know what that means, but I hear a lot. I hear a lot. And And other Bitcoin podcasts suck. So, we’re going to get back into like good podcast. Yeah. So, we’re going to try to focus on things next episode. You can look forward to us talking about ordinals. You heard Corey mention it here. What is an ordinal? Why are people using it? What are the most popular ones? Can you make money off of it? I know that’s all you guys care about. No, I’m kidding. But there are a lot of people that only care about that, right? Um, you know, thank you guys for tuning back in. That did, you know, you could find this episode on Logos Podcast Network as well as the Bitcoin podcast YouTube channel if you just want the Bitcoin podcast stuff or the Bitcoin or the Bitcoin podcast.com, which has a lot of work to get updated, but it’s back running again. I’m in the process of the Bitcoinodcast.com works. That’s the old site. Still works. Still fine. I’m making a new one. It’s going to be way better. It’s going to be hot and sexy using all the new tech. Not this crazy WordPress And it’s going to be hot. But uh don’t hold your breath. Yeah. That’s good. That’s a Yeah, you will. Definitely. You will. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So, we got I want to thank you guys for tuning in. Like, we love the fact that we’re sparking the Bitcoin podcast up again. So fun. So, yes, it is a great show. This say what? You want to do drunk episodes again? Like what? For those that don’t know, who haven’t been around since the early beginning. The first I’d say 40 episodes. Every 10th episode, we did a drunk episode where we got hammered and just talked. I think I say we we bring that back. I say we do as well. Uh I’m all fan for it. I think the fourth one I got in trouble with my parents because of all the cursing that I was doing. You said a lot of cuss words back then. I I it was like a whole sentence was fwords. Uh but I you know I’m different. I got kids now. So, um yeah, just one quick shout out. We only have one. Uh do we do shout outs still or we do your do your typical shout out? Uh it’s just the one. Shout out to Zoe Sana. She’s still doing a widemouth long neck. Congratulations be for being the first Dominican woman to win an Academy Award. Congratulations to you. I support you, girl. Hell, my uh my soonb wife is Dominican, so I love Dominicans. I I I just want to give the one shout out. I don’t even like Docat. I forgot who that guy is. Don’t know who that is anymore. That’s Ryan Gosling. There was a Barbie thing going on the last time recording show. So, yeah. I don’t know what that We don’t have to do this anymore. And shout out to a mod. Shout out Shout out to a mod. All right, guys. Play the outro.